First, I would like to thank everyone for their responses to my previous posting entitled “DC or DCC”.
Based on all of your thoughts, I have dicided that DCC is the route to go. I am told that this will eliminate about 90% of the wiring snafu’s.
Now, here is my new problem. The choices for the seem endless and some what confusing. Digitrax, NEC, MR, EasyDCC and so on. I have visited a few clubs and there are opinions all over the board.
Question:Which DCC product is recommended to begin with that is expandable and allows for teethed or hands free cab controlls?
All of you have previously posed some interest questions and I have found that I did not provide enought info about what i have in mind. So here goes:
My current layout was a 4x8 with 2 unconnected ovals and 2 trains. It was simple DC with no trunouts. But it also had a 1967 version Aurora Model Motoreing slot car set going thru it. It was very simple, but that is how my projects always start.
I am building this layout in my home and I am a “lone wolf” on this project. I envision the with the family I will utilmately end up with 2 or 3 operators.
My layout calls for a U-shaped table that will fill part of the L-shaped dowstairs family room; approximate size or room = 11 ft by 15 ft… The layout has been designed for an industrial area( Red Wing Mill, ADM Grainery, etc.), trasition into a town setting and moving to a country setting. It is somewhat of a large undertaking and I have aready built most of the benchwork as I have alot of 3/4" plywood and 2x4’s laying around the garage.
Scale = HO
I want sound and lights
I am planning to start with 2 trains, but plan on expanding to at least 4 t
The ‘size’ if the layout really is not the issue. The number of trains/engines running on the layout is what draws the current and you need to size the system with that in mind.
Both Digitrax and NCE have very good starter systems that can be expanded(more throttles/boosters/wireless/etc). MRC also has a starter system, but the expansion is more limited and comes at a price.
Wireless throttles and the receivers can be added to the above system. Wireless in not cheap, and you will spend as much on the wireless throttles/receives as you have in the system. But they are very nice!
One item that both of the above systems support is the addition of adding a computer interface. You may not think that is too important now, but 6 months from now you will understand how easy programming decoders with you computer can be. Both NCE and Digitrax support JMRI Decoder Pro software(free download). MRC has a proprietary interface and you have to use their own software. Decoder Pro is updated often and has support for the newest decoders. You do not need a powerful PC to run this stuff. I had used a dedicated 600 MHz/Pentium III unit that is a little slow, I bought a ‘Walmart Special’ computer for under $300 to replace it and that old one is still running down at our club’s layout - It just refuses to die.
Myself; I have a Digitrax DCS100 wireless Chief system and a booster - More power than my home layout needs. But there was no NCE Procab, MRC Prodigy Express or Digitrax Zephyr when I bought it. If I had to start over, I would buy a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra - 3.5 amps of power, ability to run 22 trains/engines, and lots of ‘big system’ features. It includes a built-in throttle and you can add wireless throttles/computer interface/etc.
Well, that pretty much rules out the low-end NCE offering. The “stock” PowerCab only allows for two throttles, and if you add the SB3A booster (another $130 or so), you’ll bump that up to four. But if you add their USB adapter, or a mini-panel, well, those take throttle addresses as well.
I’d go with the Zephyr Xtra, which can handle 20 active throttles at once, doesn’t count additional devices against that limit, and has a computer interface ability that doesn’t have the NCE USB adapter’s limitations.
I can’t decide between MTH’s DCS system, which is supposed to be mostly compatible with DCC, and a Digitrax DCC system for my future HO layout. My son and I probably will run only up to two trains at a time.
And even with Google I cannot find a list of what DCS offers that DCC doesn’t.
Would any of you know what DCS offers that DCC doesn’t, or vice versa?
If you only want to run MTH DCS locomotives then get DCS. If you have the slightest interest in running DCC locos from other manutacturers, or in installing your own decoders, get a DCC system. DCS is not DCC. It is proprietary to MTH and has very limited DCC compatibility. Basically if you want to run DCC with DCS you have to get a DCC system to connect to the DCS so it can pass through the DCC commands. MTH DCS locos will work on DCC. Personally, i can’t fathom why anyone in HO would get a DCS command station.
MTH claims full DCC compatibility with its Proto-Sound 3 decoders.
Quoted from Version 3 of MTH’s 2010 HO catalog:
DCC Features
Proto-Sound 3.0-equipped locomotives can be controlled in command mode with any DCC-compliant command control system. While you won’t have access to all of the incredible features of Proto-Sound 3.0, you will have full DCC command control. This means you can use your existing DCC controller to independently control your other DCC-equipped locomotives in addition to your Proto-Sound 3.0 locomotives on the same track at the same time.
When using a DCC controller, the following Proto- Sound 3.0 steam locomotive features are accessible:
Steam Features*
• Headlight on/off • Bell on/off • Whistle/Horn on/off • Start-up/Shut-down • PFA initiate and
If you take the next step up and get an NCE Power Pro instead of the Power Cab, you can have up to 63 cabs, a 5 Amp system, and you also have a serial computer interface.
Unless I am mistaking, it is possible to run a MTH decoder on a DCC system. However a DCS system will only run MTH locos. It is impossible to run your DCC locos on a DCS system.
Thanks for all of your input. While I stll feel like I am swimming in alpha-numeric soup, but the clouds are starting to part. Howerver:
On the NCE systems, is 10amps better than 5 amps from the get go if expansion is a possibility?
Sounds like there are a number of Digitrax Zypher Extra supports and oppisition in this discussion. However, I have picked up rumors that the origiator of Digitrax was the head of the group that set the DCC conventions and that undue pressure may have been broght on that group to conform to the Digitrax technology, at the expense of other. Is that basis clouding opions? You know old memory die hard.
I am learning that it all comes down to support and who will support me when I get into an quagmire. I live in Southeastern Micigan, that being said I am an MSU fan, as long ans the MSU is my alumni, Montana State University. Any suggestions as to which DCC manufacture has the stronger support system in the neck of the woods?
I would rater spend the extra $$ up front and get the correct DCC system, instead of throwing more $$ after a bad decision. I have learned by experience that going the cheap route can be very costly in the long run. I will not rush this decision, but will committ wholehartedly once the decision is made. Again, who should I be consultin in the SE Michigan and Norther Ohio region for advice?
I need all the help I can get, because I gave up golf for this new passion. This is like trading one addiction for another! Has any one ever tried to pick out an new set of club at your local Pro shop? It is mind boggeling!
It depends on what you mean by “expansion”. If you mean adding more locos to the layout, to the point that 5 amps isn’t enough, then yes, 10 amps would be “better”. If you mean adding more capability to your DCC system in terms of accessories/functionality, amps don’t really matter (except of course in the case of track-powered accessories).
Actually, although AJ may have been on the original DCC working group (I don’t know if he was or not), it’s my understanding that it was actually the Lenz spec that was pretty much adopted as the DCC standard by the NMRA.
See what local clubs use, and the local hobby shops stock. If you’re looking for local support, that’s where you’ll find it.
Many years ago I had a Keller Onboard DCC system. It was good for its day but as children came along the trains had to go.
Recently I purchased a NCE starter set and some Blackstone Loco’s. So far the NEC does pretty much what I need for now and can be expanded as needed. It’s simple to program (to me) and does the job. There is a support group if you have questions that need answers so I think thats helpful. I’m sure most other systerms have groups too.
Jaddie indeed the MTH DCS decoders will run on a DCC system. What I was explaining was that you CAN NOT run DCC decoder equiped locos on the MTH DCS command station. Unless you only want to run MTH locos don’t get the MTH DCS command station. By all means run MTH locos with a DCC command station.
Jaddie, I own three MTH HO engines. While I like them, I think MTH is trying to snow us with all that verbiage about DCC compatibility. Most people with DCC experience actually critisize MTH for falling short of what a good DCC sound decoder offers, such as: 1. ability to customize speed/throttle curves 2. advanced consisting 3. volume and other control of individual sounds 4. some have the ability to accept new downloaded sound files 5. programming with CV readback on a program track These features may not seem important to a new DCC user, but they are. MTH is promising new diesels with more DCC capability. I say wait and see, maybe at the NMRA/Sacramento. Hal
Thank you very much. I had MTH’s handheld set with its track interface unit and accessory interface unit in the budget, but have now replaced those items with the Zephyr. My budget and I thank you.