South Shore uses direct suspension wire over its street trackage in Michigan City, so pantograph pickup can be used. The problem comes with the type of hangers used to actually hold up the wire. Pantograph shoes are flat while the contact shoes on trolley poles are often U-shaped. What’s OK for a trolley pole might cause problems for a pantograph.
Some of the streetcar tracks in Sacramento and in several European cities had and, in Europe, still have, simple suspension trolley wire with hangers designed to accomodate both pantographs and trolley-pole wheels and shoes. Also, Oakland. Key System and Sacramento Northorn used pantographs and operated under wire also used by trolley pole streetcars.
Brussels has converted its streetcar system to pantographs, and Melborne is in the process. Duringt the conversion process the special hangers were used so both types could operate. And in Brussels one line is being preserved with the compromise type so musuem cars can operate from the tram museum depot over the agecent, and very scenic, line.
When the CL&E cars came to the LVT they had a single folding door and steps at the right front. The LVT shops installed traps, steps, and railroad type doors at the right and left front end. Later center rear doors were installed for emergency exiting on the long viaduct into Norristown.
The problem with the two that pantographs catch on the frogs in the overhead that allow troley poles to change directions. As stated, special hardware exists so that the two can run together.
1922 Shaker Heights to Downtown Cleveland
When I started the post, my main interest was to list places (routes) where you could ride an electrically powered “trolley” (Interurban, Rapid Transit, et.al.) over a track bed that had been laid down a very long time ago and (therefore) had some historical significance.
There has been some very interesting discussion along the way (thank you!) about the definitions of trolley versus light rail, poles v. third rail shoes v. pantographs, etc.
Here’s what I’ve gathered so far about historical routes that have been in (more or less) continuous use since originally constructed as an electrically powered, passenger transportation route:
| Route | Start Date |
|---|---|
| New Orleans (St. Charles Line) | 1835 |
| New Orleans (Canal St. Line) | 1861 |
| Boston, MA (Green Line) | 1889 |
| Library, PA (Pittsburgh Railways Company/PAT) | 1902 |
| Norristown, PA (SEPTA 100) | 1902 |
| Sharon Hill, PA (SEPTA 102) | 1904 |
| Chicago, IL (South Shore Line) | 1906 |
| Media, PA (SEPTA 101) | 1912 |
| Cleveland, OH (Shaker Heights) | 1922 |
I’ve listed nine routes and would be happy to keep expanding the list.
Again, thanks for your contributions and discussion.
Would San Francisco’s Muni (or Muni Metro) count? - al
One of Bostons Green lines was a steam train route from 1860 or so…
Not steam, horsecar. Your list is incorrect in that you show Boston when electric operation started and show New Orleans (both routed) when steam (St. Charles) or horsecar (Canal) operation started. New Orleans started electric operation well after Boston did. Please be consistant. The existing San Francisco original trackage was converted from cable to electric right after the famous fire of 1906. Boston should be at the head of list if you are talking about electric operation.
Again, electric operation on Metro-North-Connecticut DOT’s Stamford-New Canaan branch started in 1901 with trolley cars. It was converted to 11,000V AC and returned to tie in with the main line when the New Haven electrification was extended to Stamford, about 1909. Otherwise. if you are simply talking about rail on the roadbed, it would probably be third, with the correct date. But if you are talking about roadbed, then also the BMT West End ROW north fo Coney Island is about 1869, and it should be included as electrified with trolley wire about 1901, converted to 3rd rail in 1918.
And don’t forget that parts of the roadbed on Park Avenue still used by Metro North to access Grand Central Terminal were originally used in 1834, but electrified in 1906.
How about Routes 10, 11, 13 and 34 in Philadelphia? They have been in continual use since well before the 1923 map I have. Unfortunately I do not know when each of the routes were started or by which company.
| Route | Start Date |
|---|---|
| New Orleans (St. Charles Line) | 1835 |
| Boston, MA (Green Line) | 1856 |
| New Orleans (Canal St. Line) | 1861 |
| New Canaan, CT (Metro North) | 1901 |
| Library, PA (Pittsburgh Railways Company/PAT) | 1902 |
| Norristown, PA (SEPTA 100) | 1902 |
| Sharon Hill, PA (SEPTA 102) | 1904 |
| Chicago, IL (South Shore Line) | 1906 |
| San Fransisco, CA | 1906 |
| Media, PA (SEPTA 101) | 1912 |
| Cleveland, OH (Shaker Heights) | 1922 |
| Philadelphia (10, 11, 13, 34, 36) | 1923? |
Thanks for the extra information! I will research the Philadelphia street car route history more tonight.
The Mass. Historical Society dates the first horsecar operation in Boston as 1856 so I used that date for Boston.
The 1901 date for the New Canaan branch is when electric trolley cars started operating. Stem (or horses) may hve been used earlier.
Sinmilarly, Pittsburgh’s line to Library was a takeover of a narrow gauge steam railroad!
Dave,
I’d be happy to update the list, but I don’t have those dates. If anyone can cite a reference, I’ll repost with the right information. Thank you for your help on this.
Paul
Absolutely! It is limited only by the designs of the hangers, pull-overs, and frogs; they have to be designed so as not to snag the pantagraph. However, Melbourne, Australia, ran both forms of pickup under single suspensions until very recent years, when they went wholly to pans. And I have seen both operated under single-suspension at the National Capital Trolley Museum in Wheaton, Maryland; they do it there all the time.
Regards: Tom Fairbairn