What is the thickest benchwork you can mount a tortoise switch machine under? I’ve got some parts of my RR with 4 inches of foam. Can I mount the tortoise on a plywood base (quarter inch) under the foam and get the wire to go through the 4 inches of foam? Do I have to use heavier wire? A second (third) question… Has anyone ever installed a tortoise under an in-place, existing turnout without either removing the turnouts or ruining them in the process? If so, how’d you do it?
I’m not using Tortoises this time, but I did, plus the servos I’m using mount the same way and operate the same way, with the wire rockign back and forth. 4" of foam plus 1/3" plywood describes my layotu exactly, and it works fine. You wull need heavier wire than the one that comes with the Tortoise - the one that comes with it probably isn;t long enough, either.
You can do somewhat similar to the Remote Mount yourself for already in place turnouts. The nice thign about a mechanism like that is you to not have to drill up into the turnout, you only need s small hole drilled down a couple of ties away from the throwbar. For best results put a piece of brass tube in the hoel and runt he wire through that, an upside-down J shape where the short tip fits int he throwbar hole and the long part goes throught he tube to the underside of the layout. The simplest way to connect this to the Tortoise is to mount the Tortoise on its side and bend the wire 90 degrees over the Tortoise (can be any angle relative to the turnout - in case there are benchwork supports in the way) and then bend the tip up to mount in the moving part of the Tortoise. This si without using the plastic fulcrum piece, it’s not needed for this type of install. As the Tortoise moves back and forth, the wire rotates in the tube and moves the throwbar back and forth.
I did this for one turnout that eas too close to the cross brace under the benchwork. With servos I cheated, since due to the way the servos work, when the arm rocks back and forth is also spins - so I did not have to make the second bend under the layout, I simply attached it to the servo in the same way as any of the others using the more ‘normal’ rocking arm method.
I use Tortoises through 2 inch foam. As recommended, I picked up some heavier wire (“music wire”) from the hardware store. Make sure you’ve got a good heavy set of wire cutters, while you’re there. To use thicker wire, you will also need a drill bit to enlarge the mounting hole on the Tortoise itself. Given the geometry I used for 2-inch, 4 inches should work just fine.
For a turnout that’s already installed, I would offset-mount the Tortoise to one side and extend the throw bar. It doesn’t have to be mounted in the center of the points.
I made a video of how I mounted a tortoise switch machine in 2" of foam. I cut a hole to put the switch machine in and mounted it to a board. The this is mounted it flush with the top of the foam.
I discard the wire supplied by Circuitron in favor of heavier gauge .040 piano wire. My Tortoises are mounted on the underside of 1/2" plywood, no foam. I would imagine that there is virtually no reasonable limit to the thickness of your benchwork as long as you use a thick enough wire. Not sure what the Tortoise can tolerate, but 4 inches of foam does not seem to be too thick.
I don’t see how you can easily or reasonably install a Tortoise under an in place turnout without removing the Tortoise to drill a hole for the wire. I actually drill a 5/8" hole in the plywood to give sufficient horizontal clearance for the wire to work effectively and to leave enough room to properly adjust the turnout over the hole. I am sure there are ways to do it, but better to remove the turnout in my opinion.
The LION has some Tortoise machines mounted remotely to the layout, and are connected to the turnout with 1/16" welding rod. I cut the surface of the table with a motor tool and the rod fits in that. I have a very cute coupling method to connect the rod to the Tortoise, and it works well.
But if you do not want to pull up the switch to drill a hole, then you are probably to the point where you do not want to cut a grove through your scenery.
LIONS are very crafty when they have to be. I’ll add some more details later if you are still interested.
That Tortoise remote mount, or some home made version, can be easily added to an installed turnout. The hole through the base is drilled between the ties, so the turnout doesn’t have to be removed. Since the wire rotates instead of moving side to side, it will also reach farther.
I have one of them, but for a different reason. I used it because the Tortoise would have been in my subway tunnel.
Thanks, Dave. I must confess that I have never tried the remote mount. I really should try it sooner or later because one of the tasks that I least enjoy is installing a Tortoise. Under my method, I have to remove the turnout, drill the hole, install the Tortoise, then complete the wiring.
Someday, Circuitron, or some other manufacturer, is going to invent a turnout with an embedded chip to move the points by wireless remote control.
Doesn’t the FLEA do that? If I remember correctly, it is a turnout with a decoder and a micro-motor that moves the points. It gets power and DCC signals from the track on the layout that it connects to I think.
There are a few issues with the Flea. First, they only make them on specific turnouts. If you don’t use Walthers/Shinohara, you’re out of luck. ANd they are refits - you buy the whole assembly, so if you already have the turnouts, you’re also out of luck. Second is the rather high cost.
The third is logistical. They take their power from the track. If you run into a turnout incorrectly set and short out the track, then you can’t ‘fix’ it by throwing the switch to the other position, the power’s out. Best practices for stationary turnouts and DCC is to opoer them from somethign other than the local track segment so that you don;t run into problems like this and end up having to push the train back by hand to clear the short first.
It’s a neat idea. but not completely practical, and very costly.
Awww nuts, I was afraid of that. I had started looking more closely at the web site., and it seemed like there were a lot of downsides. Thanks for confirming all of that, Randy.
It is a neat idea. Too bad it is not completely practical and very costly.
Servos are my weapons of choice these days, cheaper then Tortoises and smaller. Otherwise work pretty much the same. Don’t cheap out and rewire them to be stall motors though, they aren’t meant for that.
I love the Tortoise. It is totally reliable and not all that expensive in the greater scheme of things.
The Tortoise is not that difficult to mount either. I have a ton of them under my layout, and I have never had to re-do an installation. It is easy to get it right the first time.
The only downside to the Tortoise, and I assume that the same is true for a servo, is that you have to crawl under the layout to install it.
As has been already posted, increasing the wire size is possible, I have done it several times using 0.032 dia wire. I did enlarge the hole in the tortoise to accept the wire.
I have installed several Tortoises under already installed switches. To do this requires care and I am not sure I have the right names for the tools. But, here goes. I drill a small bit down through the roadbed at the end of the switch tie/throwbar. I also note the direction of the slot necessary for the wire throw motion. I chuck a spiral bit in my dremel tool extension. I put a collar on the bit that limits the depth. I measure the thickness of the homasote roadebed and plywood underneath and set the collar to that depth. I put on safety glasses and turn the tool on at a low but not lowest speed. I drill from below at the hole I previously drilled from above and then carefully route a slot in the direction of the throwbar. I have had good success doing this but due to insufficient depth setting have had to take an Xacto blade down from above and beside the throwbar to finish the cut. It requires care but can be done. The biggest problem I have experienced is that the spiral router bit wants to travel off the direction you want it to go because of the rotational preference to travel away from the cutting action. The spiral bits I refer to I have bought at Home Depot and are about 1/8 inch dia. Best of luck and use care.
I just installed some Tortoise yesterday, and found I had a problem with glue fouling the hole in the sub-roadbed.
LION took a knife (actually he used a scalpel) with a no.11 blade and sliced down between the ties on either side of the throw bar and then cut the rest of the offending material from below.
You could do the same from above if you had no hole. Drill a 1/16th" hole either side of the throw bar and use the knife to cut straight down (you did use Homosote or foam, didn’t you?) Use a small chisel from below to clear out the rest of it.
ONly have to crawl under if you have a large island-type layout. My layout is aroudn the walls and no more than 2 feet wide, so I can just reach up from the edge and position the servo or Tortoise. I have a work light I set ont he floor so you cna look down throught eh throwbar from the top and see where the hole is. Actually, I only installed a couple of mine, on work nights I had my friend do the rest, since he has a knack for getting the actualting wire throught he throwbar ont he first try, every time. The servo mounts come with a square of double-sided tape which isn’t enough for permanent placement but holds things in place long enough to run a coupel of screws in them. On his own layout, my friend just uses a small dab of Gorilla Glue, she he just has to hold the servo in position for a minute or so and it’s done, no crawling under anything.My controllers mount on my fascia, and the 3 wire cable from the servo just plugs in, so no underneath work for that, either. I’ll have to work underneath to wire up the frog relays, but so far my smallest loco, a Bachmann 44 tonner, doesn’t stall on the unpowered frogs so that will probably be one of the last things I do. It’s also not a huge pain since my layout is over 4’ high, meaning there is plenty of space to sit or kneel under it - plus it’s in a spare bedroom that’s carpeted so it’s not even that hard on the knees.