I am a long-time model rail but have just started using Circuitron’s Tortoise switch motors. I have a few questions to ask of you guys that have installed a lot of these and may have some insights to share.
Do you see a need to replace the supplied spring wire (.025" diameter) with heavier gauge spring wire? I have only installed two of these things, and since my total roadbed/subroadbed is less than 1", I did not have to replace the supplied spring wire. Howerver, it seemed the alignment of the Tortoise throw arm/fulcrum/spring wire with the turnout throwbar was fairly critical (i.e. adjusting so turnout throw was with sufficient force on the points in either direction). It is hard to get the Tortoise exactly parallel with the tracks (track is above table, I am below table - no xray vision).
I was also curious to hear the experiences of anyone who has mounted the Tortois “off-axis” relative to the turnout throwbar. I have at least one location that the Tortoise won’t fit in the desired place relative to the turnout (yes, I may resort to a remote thingy).
Can one tortoise drive both turnouts in a crossover (mechanically)? I saw the video in which the fellow ingeniously used springs and balance bars to do this, but I do not have the real estate under the table top to do this.
Speaking of crossovers, is there any reason one toggle switch can’t control both turnouts in a crossover? It seems to me (without giving it a lot of thought) one DPDT switch could be connected to two motors and no undesired sneak paths would exist, and the current draw is negligable.
Am I alone in feeling it is better to initially only use one screw to mount the motor (so it can be pivoted to adjust spring wire throw)? I made a template out of .040" styrene (using the template on the paper instructions as a master) for all the screw holes, and used it to predrill all holes for the motor. After having to move the motor a couple times, the second mo
Sorry…to be actually helpful now…align your tortoise topside by centering your throwbar and machine. Drill 2 pilot holes (to match 2 opposite tortoise mounting slots) through your bench work and then easily mount the machine from underneath. David B
I’ve built my layout on 2-inch foam, so I have to replace the wires anyway. I do use a slightly thicker wire, but that’s mostly because of the additional length. For your situation, the supplied wire should be fine.
You should not need to worry about the amount of force available. Moving the points should take minimal force. If that’s not the case, something is binding and you should correct that first. That’s one of the keys to getting nice, slow-motion point movement which is the hallmark of Tortoise machines.
To drive 2 turnouts, you can use Circuitron’s model 6100 and 6101 remote actuator. (The 6100 is the Tortoise mount plus one remote actuator, and the 6101 is a second remote.) I just checked the price at M.B. Klein, and it’s actually just a bit cheaper to buy a second Tortoise than to buy one machine plus the linkages. If you’re stuck for space, though, or you can’t put the Tortoise right beneath the turnout(s), this would be an option.
Wiring two Tortoises in series and driving them with one DPDT should work fine.
Yes alignment is a pain. I use double sided tape to temporarily align, then put screws in. In my mind this was the biggest learning.
It is easy to install tortoise on top of the layout. If you are on pink foam, I mount a 4" square piece of homasote and thats gives a good foundation. A building to hide it and voila. In fact, I try to do this as much as I can so avoid back breaking undertable work. Not where you have a yard and station with lot of tracks but easy to do on just single sidings. They can go behind trees, under signal towers, etc.
For crossovers, I wire them in series so they both get 6V. That allows my driver (such as an SE8C signal controller or a DS64 switch decoder) to not over current. I agree that linkages are complex and more expensive than just another tortoise.
Hope these help. FYI another idea: use two power supplies and an SPDT switch to throw them. Reduces pain of soldering, SPDT so much simpler.
Thanx for the comment guys. I just did the 3rd one, and it went a lot smoother. One thing I forgot to ask, is there an issue with the mounting screws loosening over time? I had a few #5 x 11/16" sheet metal screws that worked perfect for me (I prefer the #5 since it is a little larger diameter and still fits the factory mounting holes) since my roadbed is 3/16" and the subroadbed is 1/2". I could only find #4 x 1/2" or #4 x 5/8" just now at Home Depot. The 5/8" are a bit long (cutoff disc handles that pretty fast though). I just don’t have much faith in #4 screws holding for 20 years.
I am old school (i.e. D.C.) I decided to avoid DCC since I have over 250 locos (yeah, I went a bit nuts during the 90’s). I did electronics for over 40 years as a career, and I couldn’t face installing 250 decoders! I know I could run both DCC & DC, but I tend to go all out, and would “have” to convert everything to DCC. And that would probably prevent me from ever building a layout. I’m 68 yo and time is running short! I wann run trains again.
As for the DPDT vs SPDT - each one has merit IMO. The DPDT is double the wiring, but may have more flexibility in terms of control. Having said that, I just bought 100 SPDT switches, so I suspect I will go that route (I have about 100 wall warts I aquaired over the years, and probably almost as many power packs and supplies I have built - so bipolar DC - plus and minus - is not an issue).
I did not try #5. I did try #6 and thought that was too big for the notch provided. None of my #4s which is what I predominantly used came loose, I am just taking it all down for construction right now and all my turtles were secure.
My layout is 2-inch foam with no plywood. This does present a problem when mounting Tortoises from below. I took the paper template that comes with each Tortoise and transferred it to a 3x3 inch piece of 1/4-inch plywood. Then I drilled out the large hole and drilled small starter holes for the mounting screws.
I set the turnout in place, set the points halfway between the rails, and marked the position where the wire from the Tortoise would be. I removed the turnout and drilled first a pilot hole and then a 3/8 hole. When you’re making that big a hole in foam, it’s better to drill a clean hole than to try to punch through.
Next, I dropped a 3-inch carriage bolt with a washer through the hole. I spread white glue on the back side of the plywood square, slipped it over the bolt and stuck it to the underside of the foam, being careful to align it so the motion of the wire would be perpendicular to the track. I added another washer and a wing nut, tightening it against the plywood.
After a day or two, I removed the nut and bolt. The plywood is securely in place. (I haven’t had one come loose yet.) I installed the Tortoise, using the mounting holes I drilled a couple of paragraphs back, and it’s done.
Other hint: Take a file and round off the top end of the Tortoise wire, actually sharpening it a bit. Put just a bit of grease on the tip. This makes it oh so much easier to slip through that tiny hole in the throw bar.
I’ve done about 20 of these also, in my case through 5/8" plywood plus HO cork roadbed. I drill a 3/8" (vs 1/4") hole below the throwbar to give a bit more room from interference with the wire. I used the 3M doublestick tape atop the Tortoise as a way to tentatively attach the Tortoise until checking things a bit, than add a couple of 1/2" screws (leaving the tape in place). I used toothpicks to force the points in the middle. When then placing the Tortoise, if near the table edge, I could reach under and poke around until finding the throwbar and eventually poking the wire through the desired throwbar hole. If way under the table, I put a LED flashlight pointing down through the throwbar hole, then got under the table and poked at the bottom of the throwbar until I got through the center hole (which knocks over the flashlight) and pushed hard enough to make the tape hold in place. After being assured the turnout was working well, I cut the extra wire off above the throwbar.
Sometimes alignment was not right. If the centering was off a little, making points much more firm in one direction than another, in some cases I could bend (bias) the wire bit where installed to get adequate centering. For some, I loosened the tape by wiggling and adjusted the position. In one case, I needed to (Dremel from underneath) widen the plywood hole a bit because the wire was hitting the side so the points movement was impeded. When I painted my track, in some cases I allowed too much paint spray around the moveable points rails, creating some sticking. In one or two cases I added stronger music wire.
I used dual Torti on my crossovers, operated from the same DPDT.
I needed to use one remote mount, where I neglected to provide enough room underneath for the Tortoise. It’s a nice contraption, but I had a tough time installing it between a
Drill a nice big hole under the throw rod. 3/8 to 1/2 inch is fine.
Center and TAPE the switch points in mid-throw.
Tape them REAL GOOD.
Center the actuator on the tortoise.
Put a glob of silicone caulk on the face of the tortoise.
Thread it up through the big hole, and into the little hole in the throw-bar.
7a) You should be able to visualize it ok through the big hole.
Paste the totroise to the underside of the table.
Slide it as necessary so there is no strain on the actuator wire, either for and aft or port and starboard. It should stick, but you may need to prop it in place with a stick until the caulk sets. (I have done this, but have had no need to do so recently.
Return to the top of the table and assure yourself that the switch has remained in the mid-throw position. If so then you are done. And you are even more done when the caulk dries. Give it a day.
LION does not have tortii in the middle of the table. Him can center the actuator on the tortii as above and thread it through from the bottom, but then stand up and move the animal until the points are centered and there is no bending in the actuator rod. You can see it through the generous hole you have made.
The 0.025" is fine in standard applications. I use 0.032" for Peco code 83 with the spring still in place. My mounting template is metal as per the paper template but wilth a short stub of 5/16" rod added. This usually gets it aligned nicely but the slotted mountings allow for adjustment if necessary.Main thing is to make sure the throwbar is in the centre when the Tortoise is at mid stroke.