Hello, I am in the starting process of building my first ‘real’ layout. I am using Code 100 nickel silver track. Recently I came into a large collection of used switches, most are Code 100 nickel silver, but also in the collection are some Code 83, some brass and some Tyco steel.
My questions are:
Are their any tips or suggestions on how to use a Code 83 switch with Code 100 track because of the rail height difference?
Are their any conductivity issues I would encounter using brass and steel on the predominantly nickel silver layout? If so are their any suggestions on how to work around this?
Any help is appreciated. As I am not concerned about being prototypical at this time. So I am not worried about the visual differences between the different switches, just wondering if they can all be used on the same layout with minimal issues.
You can connect them all together and not worry about the dissimilar materials. Because of their age, the brass and steel turnouts may by physically worn out. Tyco, in particular, isn’t thought of as a quality track manufacturer, so using these might be more trouble than it’s worth.
The track has different height, as you’ve mentioned, but there is also the issue of rail cross-section between different rail codes and even different manufacturers. All of these can make tracklaying more difficult and more prone to kinking, both vertical and horizontal. Making good track joints with flex track and mis-matched rail codes can be a challenge, even for experienced track layers.
Solid trackwork is the key to a smooth-running railroad. The closer you can get to perfection, the happier you will be. With care and attention, you can get different rail codes to play together, but it’s probably easier to stick to one.
We’re using nickel silver (Peco) code 100 in the fiddle yard and on the main and main loops with 75 in yard areas, which includes a car float. There’s Peco 75 track and points on the loading loop, but the apron point needs a Walthers No4 Y ti fit and boy have we had fun matching the Peco to the Wathers.
As Mr B says try not to mix, if you do plan carefully. Remember this here hobby’s surpposed to be fun and above all it’s your say, it’s your layout init.
LIONS like to mix things up. OK, maybe that is not exactly right, but he does this anyway. It is what he has in stock. HIm buys Model Power flex-track because it is cheaper. He still must use used flex track, and especially used switches. Some of my switches are now on their FIFTH layout.
Is this optimal… Well no it is not, but LIONS cannot afford to buy more, buy you of course, being rich are always able to buy the newest and best switches. Quality Counts! That said, I have rebuilt flaky switches and they seem to be working ok right now.
Life-Like switches were steel, they have conductivity issues. Brass track also has conductivity issues: The oxidation does not conduct electricity. Nickle-Silver also does oxidizes, not that I can see it, but it does, the difference is that the N-S oxidation does conduct electricity so you do not notice it.
One can put the rail joiner onto the code 100 rail, smash it flat, then solder the code 83 rail on top. The smashed rail joiner ends up being the height difference.
That depends on many factors that we don’t know about your planned layout. The simple answer is yes all three materials have different levels of conductivity. Brass is a great conductor, nickel-silver is so so, and steel isn’t very good. Is that really an issue on the practical level I would think it depends on the size of the section of track with that type of material. For example if the track in question is a single steel turnout connected to NS and the feeders are on the NS side I would say no problem. If the track is a ladder of steel turnouts and the feeders are on the point side then yes it might be difficult getting power through that ladder to the yard spur.
The way around it is to have more feeders on the NS than the yellow brass, and even more feeders on the steel sections.
What I have seen anyone mention is the possible issue galvanic corrosion sometimes called bi-metal corrosion. Any time two dissimilar metals are placed in contact with one another their electrons can react. I know this is not an issue between NS and yellow brass as they are really just different forms of brass. But they are both cathotic metals while steel is an anode. I know steel and aluminum is a real issue. I’ve never heard of anyone talking about it on this forum so perhaps also not a big deal.
[quote]
Any help is appreciated. As I am not concerne
Thanks for the replies so far. Their is some great info there. I have thought about this some more and I have decided to use code 100 n/s in the parts of the layout that will have scenery. This keeps things consistent, visually and mechanically. I will reserve the odd switches for areas such as a staging yard, that are not contained by scenery and not visually a part of the layout. This will make it easier to swap them out when I can afford it.
I will use the suggestions provided for this area. Thanks again.
The problem with using steel and brass track in hidden or little used areas is the oxidation/cleaning issue. Both steel and brass oxidation do not conduct electricity at all. So the oxidation must be removed from the steel and brass track before the trains will run well.
There are two ways to remove oxidation - 1) run trains (preferably heavy) with metal wheels over the track frequently; 2) clean the track.
There are also 2 ways to slow the rate of oxidation - 1) burnish the rails to smooth and harden the surface; 2) apply a very, very light coating of some kind. Coatings known to work are metal polish, No-Ox, CRC 2-26, Wahl Clipper Oil. There’s even a claim that automatic transmission fluid works.
The rate of oxidation varies greatly depending on the environment the layout is in. Humidity, salts in the air, and temperature are probably the biggest factors.
Given that running trains is the most pleasant way to keep oxidation at bay, putting the steel and brass track where it will be rolled over the most makes a lot of sense to me - something I proved on an earlier layout done with brass track. The main usually worked pretty well; spurs not so hot. I would definitely avoid putting brass or steel track where it can’t be easily reached for cleaning. And since the brass/steel turnouts are used, having them easily reached would also be important. Finally, putting the worst looking track out front means you will replace it sooner than otherwise. [:$]
Connecting code#83 to code#100 can be done with Transition Joiners, but they are tricky to use. I have a mixture of track (except for steel) but intend to use only Nickel-Silver Flextrack eventually. Do you plan to go to DCC model railroading, eventually ? The less you mix metals and codes, the better ! Bob Hahn
Nickel-Silver… Like who makes the stuff. I use stuff from Model Power and from Atlas. They do not look alike. They take solder differently. So there could be minor variations between brands too.
The LION was aware of the bi-metalic action, and was going to mention it but forgot. LION is not ELEPHANT and him does forgetful things. That said, it works like a battery. But there really needs to be a medium for the electron flow to occur in. It happens in salt water, it happens in plain water, I had a dissimilar metal cap on a water pipe in the basement of an old building. It eventually blew out and the water striking a high pressure steam line flashed into steam. I could not even see into the basement, so thinking the main steam line had let go, I went across the street and called out the fire company. At least they had the gear to get in there and see what was happening. Finding a valve, they shut off the water and all was well. The building was getting 150 psi steam from Con Edison, and to be honest with you, the cut off valve for this service was not even in our building, but rather the one next door.
I do not think this will happen on my layout even if I do but brass and steel rails together (and I do), but we will keep an eye on them just for interest sake.There is no steel rail on the main line.
I have mixed all kinds of rail products in several different rail heights (Code 100, Code 83, Code 70) and produced absolutely bulletproof trackwork. As long as the top inside corners of railheads on opposite sides of a joint line up, no problem. This includes flex track, sectional track and track hand-laid with stick or salvaged rail.
Atlas Code 100 and Code 83 play well together, since the railhead to bottom of ties dimension for both is equal. All it takes is an Atlas universal rail joiner to connect them - no transition, no squash and solder, just slide it on and fasten them down. (I added slivers of plastic under the Code 83 rail, but I’m not sure it was necessary.)
Brass rail is fine in two places:
The far ends of sidings or back-in staging tracks, places where a locomotive will never go.
On heavily-traveled track (mainlines, yard leads…) which can be easily reached for cleaning.
I know, sounds like a contradiction. But in the first case it doesn’t matter if the rail conducts electricity and in the other case the traffic will keep the conductivity up - especially if your rolling stock has mostly metal wheels.
The absolutely surefire way to get railheads to line up - solder a piece of soft brass wire in the angle between the railhead and web on the outside of the rail, leaving about 1/4 inch unsoldered right at the joint. The inside edges of the railhead can be bulled into alignment (usually with finger pressure, sometimes with pliers to assist) and, once aligned, will stay there.
Steel rail as a running surface is - undesirable (I was looking for a word the censor wouldn’t object to!) OTOH, steel is all right for landscaping (on a spare rail rack, or as wheel stops in a parking lot…) In addition to corrosion, Steel is an absolute bear to solder to.
Likewise, brass rail can be used for landscape. Look around a prototype rail facility and you’ll be amazed
There are transition rail joiners which allow smooth connection of code 83 to code 100. All my Peco is code 100 [ track/ turnouts ]. You could use brass turnouts on short industry spurs. If I were you, I’d toss your Tyco steel t/os or you could disassemble them; use straight rail as a trackside detail of spare rail piles. This way, you won’t experience as much heartburn during operation. My 2 cents. TTFN & Good Luck! …Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH
1} as Papasmurf says, there are transitional rail joiners, if you can find them, but they are designed for the varying rails of NS track.
2} Yes, using NS in the scenery areas where it can all be seen is a fine idea.
3} I would strongly discourage you from mixing NS. Brass and Steel together. I know it sounds easy, but I think you will have problems with continuity and oxidation/corrosion/rust than you think, or than will be worth it. I have one piece of steel curved track that is also a power connector track piece, and trains sometimes hesitate on it. Fortunately they seem to have enough momentum to “get them over that one piece” and onto the next NS track. That won’t necessarily be true if you are using brass or steel for switches {turnouts}. You’ll likely be moving slower through those that “highballing it on the open rails”. WHile I admit to never using brass, I have read enough to know to walk away from it if it was even GIVEN to me. Same with steel {though I do have that one darned Steel curved section with the electrical connectors}.
4} I know what it is like to have a very tight budget and to have to wiat to have the money for the next purchase, of say, a switch. But that Is what I recommend for you to do…is to plan your budget carefully and buy a “switch a week” or a “switch a month” to get all NS tracking.
Just my thoughts, ideas, readings and experiences. As another forum
Just my two cents worth, but in my yard I’m using a combo of old Atlas code 100 with Bachmann EZ track. I’m also using an old Girder & Panel set for some structural details & found that the 1/4" bases from the G&P set brings the Atlas up to the EZ track, with a millimeter or so difference, easily finished with some 110-lb card stock. As someone else observed, sometimes you just have to have that certain turnout right there and will do anything and use anything to make it work.
In this vein I can also see myself adding Shinohara curved turnouts, to handle my Rapido stock, as well as some of those brass turnouts & crossovers with the wood bases (one so far); so I guess anything goes…
To a certain degree like Lion I mash up various makes of track and turnouts but it is interesting that not only do different makes of track and rail of supposedly the same “Code” have different profiles (width and bulk of base and railhead – which is why not every make of railjoiner works with rail of the same code), but when you measure the rail height with a caliper you find that not everybody’s notion of Code 100 or 83 is the same! Some of them evidently round up, and some round down. I suppose it might even be that the manufacturing process introduces some variances,