I was wondering if any of you history buffs could answer this?
Did the PRR or NYCRR WestShore every used or had a divise that signaled in bound trains consited of a line phone connected to a semaphore signal for incoming messages to the inbound train from a upcoming station stop?
The object I was wondering about had a connection going from the Phone box to the semaphore stand connected to through a rectangle box by a solid metal rod.
I hope this helps and also got pictures of it on film on a 35 mil. camera.
Your question is rather vague and confusing but…most all railroads had ways of communicating for different needs and occourances. Telegraph, and later telephone, from station to station and beyond allowed the transmission of messages; a train crew could leave a message at any station for the operator to pass on, too. Some roads had wayside telephone lines with periodic “phone booths” where trains could stop and directly contact either a nearby station/tower or the dispatcher. Wayside signals give trains instructions to pick up orders or messages at given stations and any other signal could convey route and other information as per timetable or book of rules instructions.
What you describe sounds like what is commonly known as a ‘train order signal’. Those were usually mounted just right at the station, in many different forms, from a small-bladed ‘target’ near the oeprator’s window to a full semaphore mast. They were typically used to inform the train’s crew to either stop and sign for and pick-up orders - always required when the orders restricted or took away some of the train’s operating rights, commonly known as a ‘Form 31’ or just a ‘31 order’ - or when the orders could be just picked-up ‘on the fly’ - which was permitted when the orders only expanded or granted more operating rights to the train, commonly known as a ‘Form 19’ or just a ‘19 order’. For more on this -including a little on the train order signals - see the short article on Train Orders here at - http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=270 See also the lenghty and detailed article on Train Order Signals at - http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/rail/to.htm
However, I suppose that for a high-speed operation which needs more stopping distance and/ or where visibility was limited by curves or other obstructions, a remote or ‘distant’ semaphore signal would make sense to fill that need as well. However, it would have been operated by a ‘Communications & Signals’ or ‘C&S’ line, not a phone line - probably not a huge difference in their appearance from trackside, though, s
Here’s a link to an on-line compilation of PRR Standard Signal Plans - http://prr.railfan.net/signalstandards/standards.cgi - S-454 is for the Train Order Signals, which are the typical ‘at the station’ type.
Here’s the link to the companion Specifications - http://prr.railfan.net/documents/CE234-b.pdf Although Section Number 4. Spacing of Signals. (a) on page 2 [8 of 42 in this ‘PDF’ format version] requires consideration of 100 MPH passenger train speeds, that does not seem to be reflected anyplace in the placement of train order signals. That may be because with speeds that high, train operation is likely being governed by Centralized Traffic Control - ‘‘CTC’’ - or another signal-only based system, not by any written train orders - hence, there’s no need for the train order signals at all.
Either that, or might you be describing instead either a ‘Flag Station or Stop Signal’, or some kind of distant interlocking signal or Distant Switch Indicator signal ? See PRR S-831, although that is for color lights, not semaphores.
I couldn’t tell Paul, if he was referring to message communications via telephone and telegraph or signal communications like wayside and train order signals. There is also train line communications on passenger trains plus I left out hand and lantern signals from trains to towers and stations and vice versa and between trainmen, etc.
To me, what he’s describing sounds like what you would find at any controlled absolute signal (CTC/manual interlocking/hold signal etc). Before radio became common or reliable, controlled points would have a dispatcher or block telephone to allow a crew member to talk to the control operator.
A train or engine stopped at a controlled signal was (and still is) required to call the control operator if the signal didn’t change to a proceed indication. This way, if there is a signal problem the operator can verbally authorize the train to proceed. At the very least, the crew finds out why they’re being held.
Now this communication is handled by radio and, where I work anyway, the phones are no longer maintained.
Ah, yes, I remember the ‘good old days’ of trying to find the darn telephone in the middle of the night, and/or in fog and/or snow or rain (the hotbox detectors we used to use on the Wisconsin Division displayed a position-light signal:up-down indicated proceed, across indicated it was time to find the phone and call the dispatcher).
Or maybe he was wondering about how a train knew there was a passenger waiting at a flag or conditional stop? Another possibility is something like the indicator at the interlocking towers approaching Toronto Union Station, to tell the train crew which side the platform would be so they could get the steps in the vestibule open for arrival. I couldn’t decode the question either.
Yes, there used to be phones at each end of all the passing tracks and at all the absolute blocks. The ones I was familiar with had both a dispatcher line and a block line, the block line being used to talk to any local tower operators or agents, if there was one in the area. There also used to be phones with a long solid wire connection that could be hooked up over the transmission line on lineside phone wires that one could use to listen in…