The force of a train collision on the locomotive would be many times the impact a tornado would have on a locomotive. You are comparing apples to oranges…
A tornado might knock the autoracks off the track, but the only time a tornado is going to pick a railcar up and throw it around is in a Hollywood flick.
Not true, it’s actually happened many times, one of the most famous involved a whole passenger train. F5 tornados are the strongest winds our planet can throw at something, that’s a LOT of force. Also recient data suggests that the winds are strongest at ground level to 30 feet up. So while an F5 is spinning at 250 mpr in the core a couple hundred feet up where Doplar radar sees it, the ground effect could actually be much faster.
Could a tornado lift say a modern GE AC unit? Well if a medium strength one can level a 9 story office building (as happened in Texas) then that’s something to think about. As for debris, well maybe a locomotive nose could stop a 2’x’4’ but I’d be more worried about that farm shed with the 10" steel groundstakes or the ballast itself flying at a couple hundred miles an hour, those things are a lot denser than a plank of hardwood.
Cheers!
~METRO
They are saying that winds considerably slower and more common than those found in an “F4” or “F5” could topple a train. Doesn’t specify what size however.
These suggest to me that the engines are more suceptible to wind than one may think. I’m still digging, however ,so I’ll post back when I find something else!
I think the hopper cars you are referring to are the ones on the D&RGW’s “big ten” curve out of Denver (they are still there). It seems the wind coming down the mountains (I’d think UP would be the problem but I’m no meteorologist) has tipped over cars in passing trains.
As far as taking shelter-I’d opt for the nose room, myself-'cuz when that thing hits I’m gonna be putting that room to it’s intended use (just not in the intended way) BIG TIME.
Exactly!
A wind-blown autorack has only its own mass and is (in order to hit the loco) free-flying through the air, whereas an autorack on the rails coupled to a train has its mass ‘coupled’ to both the train and the ground. The flying autorack would more or less bounce off the loco without doing the type of damage shown in the image above. If you’re caught in an F5 tornado, the least of your worries are the nasty blue liquid.
Metro, your meteorologist friend is mistaken. A tornado will NOT pick up a locomotive. A very strong (F5) tornado MIGHT tip it over, but that’s about it. And if it does tip over, then the cab will be have the entire mass of the base of the unit to protect them from flying debris. However, even a moderate-strength tornado will blow over rail cars, especially empty ones.
Those that suggest the ditch: that is a good idea if you are out in the county and cannot escape the tornado. A low ditch will protect you from most flying debris (as the debris will be mostly moving parallel to the ground), but it will not protect you from the flying debris that is landing in your area.
Bottom line: go to the nose of the unit. Period.
Ok here is some more:
DIRECT from GE:
This doesn’t say how strong the tornado was but the crew did survive and the loco didn’t derail. I have an email pending with EMD also. I’ll post back if I hear from them.
The Nose of that NS unit looks like a cars crumple zone. bad from the outside, but it deforms to absorb the impact energy and keeps the occupied crew space relatively intact.
Quote by CNW 6000:
If it’s a boxcar full of popcorn… a delicious treat.
Quote by Tree68:
Setout.
CC
In that situation I’d probably need a “nose room” with the capacity of an empty hopper.
Big Ten curves on the Moffat Line just west of Denver. Just a little west (well west in the grand scheme of things…physically it’s probably South Southwest) of here:
I thought I had a picture of the Big Ten on Pbase, but I can’t find it. I’ll look tonight and post something tomorrow Larry.
The bottom line when it comes to powerful tornados is that if you’re not underground, you’re pretty much screwed. Powerful tornados can peel the asphalt off of the highway, they’ll have no problems doing serious damage to a locomotive and causing great harm to its occupants. As big and heavy as a locomotive might be, mother nature is bigger.
In any event, I know that some railroads pay good money to have professional meteorologists keep an eye on things for them - there are companies that offer custom warning systems, such that if winds exceed X MPH, or if a dangerous storm is expected to cross the rail network within Y minutes, someone is notified and the proper safety measures can be taken.
Well said…makes sense. Still this is an interesting topic. I still haven’t received a response about this question from the FRA or EMD. Maybe I’ll write BNSF and ask about the unit that was hit by a tornado a year or two ago…
Climbing down in the hole might be a stinky thing to do, but probably the safesat place to be. The last thing I would want would be out running around a field with a huge chunk of land covered with baseball sized rocks. Besides, in the bathroom would be very convient… Think about it, you are in a tornado someone is going to s@#& their pants, might as well sit down and save the boxers
the tornado that hit the bnsf train out side of brush in colorado, blew several coal cars around knocking them off the track (they landed anywhere from 1 hundred feet to several hundred feet away) loads, and the dp unit, (the rear of the train was hit) by the pictures I saw the sd70mac was about 4-5 hundred feet from the track but no visible damge on the locomotive
Lived in tornado alley all my life,have never seen one and don’t care to. Interesting story on tornadoes about 1994 on the old Santa Fe in KS.Northbound train was passing through Wichita when a tornado warning was issued for Sedgwick County. A cloud was spotted about 15 miles north of town and the train was heading straight towards it. The train was never notified about any bad weather. No one on the crew saw anything to be scared of but the dispatcher. ydmstr or someone should have radioed about the weather.
Our rule book and if memory serves me correctly the GCOR has two options. If you can safely and quickly stop the train, take cover in a ditch. The second option is to take cover in the engine consist which is supposed to be the safest place because of weight and construction. I have been a locomotive engineer for a while, and a very avid storm chaser in my spare time…I think the best thing to do in a situation like this is to pray to the Good Lord above.
Shaun W
I might be a grumpy old railroader for saying this BUT I think too many of you have watched too much Hollywood special effects/media hype. How do you relate peeling a thin, brittle substance (asphalt) off the ground with “doing serious damage and great harm” to a 430,000 lb hunk of welded steel? Heck, my tractor can peel asphalt up, but it ain’t no mach for a locomotive.
The fact is that the gentleman from GE stated that the locomotive suffered NO damage, and the crew suffered NO harm from a DIRECT hit from a tornado. You just ignore what he says, ignore what those of us who work in the industry say, and present your OPINION as a hard fact.[soapbox]
You know I really think this would vary depending on a lot more issues than the strength of the tornado. Load would factor in, I’d hate to be running a train of scrap metal in open gondolas with a tornado chasing me. Locomotive type probably would too, I’d rather be in a GEVO or better yet a GG1 than a SW1000 or an RS1 with a lot less weight and a more exposed cab. Seccondary effects would be a considderation as well, Just hope an F5 doesn’t hit when you’re on a bridge or that there’s nothing volitle in your consist. I don’t care how much an engine weighs, and explosion is an explosion.
Cheers!
~METRO
i think i would just rather be at the controls of a train away from tornado regions!
seeking safety under 11000vlt power lines sounds dangerous !!!
i would take my chances sitting in the cab seat , that way when the ***ed thing does tip over, I won’t be covered in &%#@!
Randy