Hours
If there is two crews. on a train now how many hours before they make another crew change. Say a intermodol or a oil train left bellvue oh going to la.?
Very rarely will there be two crews on a train. Usually the second crew would probably be deadheading and not in service. Crews will work from one hour to 11 hours and 59 minutes before end of job or relief crew takes over. Second crew aboard would not necessarily nor likely to be the relief crew because of the rotation of the list.
Crew changes are set places. A UP train going west out of Chicago changes crews at Clinton, Boone, Fremont, North Platte, etc. The crews have a maximum of 12 hours to work. There is only one working crew on a train at a time. When a train gets to Clinton the Chicago crew gets off and a new crew gets on. When the train gets to Boone the Clinton crew gets off and new crew gets on. When the train gets to Fremont, the Boone crew gets off and a new crew gets on, etc.
Those crews are only allowed to work on territory they know and have qualified to work on. Off their territory, they need a pilot (Like for a detour move).
Yes, as was sung in The Music Man, “You gotta know the territory!”[:)]
I believe the concept of “tag team” crews has been broached in the past. The main problem is that the locomotives don’t have appropriate rest facilities for the off duty crew. The practice is used in the trucking industry (often by husband and wife teams), but the ‘campers’ on many of those trucks are pretty decent accomodations, for what they are.
I doubt the railroads would be willing to re-introduce cabeese as crew rest cars, or adding “dorms” to locomotives.
Obviously the territory issue also factors in - the idea of a crew being qualified to take, say the “salad shooter” all the way from the west coast to Schenectady, or even over just the length of the route covered by one railroad, would mean a lot of learning, and probably a rather restrictive pool of qualified personnel.
The territory issue isn’t an issue for truckers.
But, back across the pond on the LNER, the practice was used on non-stop trains between London and Edinburgh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corridor_tender#Locomotives_.28corridor_tenders.29
At substantial cost, only justified by the bragging rights for no stops, and quickly abandoned once that somewhat synthetic requirement was no longer required. And that was on a passenger train, with something on the ‘back end’ of the corridor with accommodations for the off-duty crewmen provided at comparatively low marginal cost.
There, as here: why pay two crews (even if one is only receiving ‘deadhead’ negotiated wage) when the alternative (recrewing at known stopping points, transport via outsourced van rides, etc.) works out to be cheaper?
The sensible place for a crew dorm hasn’t changed, although the name of the machine it rides on has changed over the years (from MATE to ‘road slug’). Enough space for any desired level of comfort or convenience, and it’s relatively easy to do the isolated-cab treatment to make it quiet enough for sleep. The concerns lie decidedly elsewhere from technical practicability – the unions, the Government, and to a lesser extent the finance people would have to agree to make the idea workable, and one of the things going out the window (and I, for one, wouldn’t miss it) is the idea of calling a crew for the next particular train, rather than reserving crews for particular train ‘voyages’ with rega
I resemble (part) of those remarks.
Once, some years back, when they did a test train for the UPS “bullet” train (that they didn’t run in this area) they took a Clinton long pool crew to Chicago and had them ride the test train. IIRC, they had a passenger car out of the business car fleet for use as a crew dormitory. At Clinton, even though the crew was already on the train, they stopped and the Clinton crew went forward to the engines and the Chicago crew went back to the dormitory car. At Missouri Valley, where the long pool changes out, the Clinton crew tied up for rest and the Chicago crew was transported back to Chicago.
It was only done on this test run and I don’t think it was meant to indicate that they were going to do this in actual service. They ran one test train in each direction and I don’t remember if the eastward train had the Chicago crew on board at Missouri Valley. It seems like it didn’t, but it’s been quite a few years since this happened.
Jeff
How about swapping crews mid-district and getting everyone back to their home terminal every night?
csx wanted to do a one crew turn(q500/501) from garrett to lima but too many factors got in the way.Csx has crew districts from chicago-garrett and garrett-willard. They are also using up long pool crews(chicago-willard) for trains.So they are running out of crews.
stay safe
Joe
That is done, but I don’t know that it’s common practice with the Class 1’s…
Long distance passenger trains often had dormitory cars with sleeping and toilet facilities for members of dining-car and other service crews. They were not for the operating crews which were, as sated before, usually changed at set locations. ________________________ If a train cannot make it to a crew change point or destination within the required hours of service it is parked on a siding, a replacement crew brought to that location (usually by automobile)and the timed out crew removed.
Amtrak forbids operating crews from riding west (as passengers) to meet the eastbound train. Their justification is that they want the eastbound crew to get their paperwork at the crew change point and be ready to take over. For example, crew members that live in the Minneapolis - St. Paul, MN area have to drive to St. Cloud to take over the eastbound train. They cannot ride the west bound and get off at St. Cloud. The crews drive to St. Cloud and then take the train to the Winona, MN crew change and get off and rest and then take the next day’s train north (west) to get their cars in St. Cloud. Crews put lots of miles driving to their jobs.
Its very popular with the CN but not so popular with the other class ones. It only works if you have trains meeting on a regular basis near the midpoint of the runs and can afford to stop them to change crews.
FEC does the mid-point crew change back home swap on a aggregate train, it was in Trains magazine a few years ago, both crews get home but still claim a full run.
Most local union contracts would not allow this, but if I remember, FEC is an open shop.
On a few union roads, it is allowed, but only under certain conditions.
As for a second crew riding in a “sleeper” of some sorts, the national contract will forbid this, it requires and defines a rest period and not performing service to the carrier, and riding in a sleeper, even off duty, is not “rest” as defined.
and if it is after the ‘off duty time’ it counts as ‘Limbo Time’. Current HOS law allows 30 Hours of Limbo Time per month.
Ed,
I have occasionally seen crew swaps on CN here in Michigan. Not frequent, but it does happen.
There is a description of accommodations on AMTRAK dormitory cars for Service crew working multiday trips at Trainorders.com : http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,520045