I have a question about handling a long heavy train going down a long steep grade. How do you handle the brakes? I was a late comer at this. I actually handled about 2 trains going east down the Cuesta grade into San Luis Obispo before I retired. I would set up full dynamic first and if I needed more braking I would start with a minimum set. If this was too much I would slowly back off on the dynamics. Then I would have to eventually release all my dynamic braking because the air would continue to reduce due to leakage, no pressure maintaining or graduated release. So, eventually, if I could not drag the train down to the bottom of the grade I would have to stop, set hand brakes. and re-charge. I know I must have been doing something wrong. How would hogheads who have done this thousands of time handle it? thanks, old flatspots
well each grade is differant from what you stated was fine and how i came down til they started dragging me down to much then i woould go back to full dynamic and then kick off the brakes then get the air right back, what this did was only release part of the brakes then if needed to hold speed only get 2 pounds at a time to hold train at speed, ( knowing that you give it time to take hold and retard speed) what most people dont understand about getting air is it takes a few seconds for it to set up, its not like get air and shoot it didnt do anything and get more . its more like a 8-10 sec or more delay depending on type of cars and how long you are.
Don’t you find that this method does not work so well with all ABD brakes? I did that frequently in the old days, but back then there was still a high percentage of freight cars equipped with AB brakes. The quick-release feature of ABD brakes seemed to cause the release of too many of the brakes needed to hold the train back. Of course, back then it was rare when a CNW train would have one unit with a working dynamic, much less sufficient dynamics to hold back an entire train, even on the meager 3 miles of 1% grade of West Allis hill in Wisconsin.
That sounds like a personal problem.[:-^]
I have a good grade where I run it is called Edelstien hill and it is 9.9 miles long, I have taken 15,000 ton trains down it with full dynamic and a min reduction (the speed on the hill is 50 mph) I feather out on the dynamic and hold the the brake pipe until I get to the bottom set the counter where I can resume track speed go to notch 2 get about half the train down knock off the train brakes and slowly start throttling up.
Rodney
how long your train is[:I] I forgot. Well sometimes you haft to get a few more pounds but it does still work, and listening to the train is still the best for determing what she is about to do. speedometer reader reactors dont have a chance on steep grades knowing where you are and reacting to the changes along with regular train handling practices wins everytime,
The sandpatch wreck, in that amount of snow if blowing and conditions bad, even a 30 year man would have his skills streached to the limit, im not bashful to say i dont ever want to be in that kind of snowstorm or those type of conditions, the few 16-18 inchers ive plowed through was enough for me.
Seems like dancing with a partner, and some sports - if you have to look and think about it before you move or react, then you’re going to be too slow, and stepping on her toes (or worse).
- Paul North.
Ihave come down Rutledge which is classified as heavy grade, both the RF way and the Holy crap are we going to stop way. The RF likes it at 10 mph feathering dynamics with a min reduction and 2 pound increments.to control speed.Using this I have had to drag a train down the hill and never really had a problem.
The Holy crap way is 20 mph set a 10 pound reduction and drag it at 20 ( not too hard really) then dynamics to hold. If you get an approach at the intermediate you better get under control as there is a derail at the bottom.
I have also kicked the air off when the light turns green and within about 1000 feet been blasting along at 26 mph.Like a roller coaster wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Flatspots wrote in part:
Then I would have to eventually release all my dynamic braking because the air would continue to reduce due to leakage, no pressure maintaining or graduated release. So, eventually, if I could not drag the train down to the bottom of the grade I would have to stop, set hand brakes. and re-charge. I know I must have been doing something wrong. How would hogheads who have done this thousands of time handle it? thanks
I would feed valve brake. We used to carry apiece of chalk to mark the spot of a seven pound brake pipe reduction on the feed valve housing. When I had about one third of the train over crest make a 5-6 pound brake pipe reduction then immediately turn the feed valve to your seven pound mark and place automatic in running position (If you had a bad leak, just turn down the feed valve and don’t touch automatic). If you had 90 lb BP it is now maintaining 83 ld brake pipe. If train seems to be reacting to a brake set then it is a go. If not reacting plug it right there before all of train over crest. If brakes reacting to your liking you may have to pull on train slightly to get rear half over crest.
When over half of the weight is over crest start using dynamic to control speed and/or set more air as needed. On a long grade mountain grade type situation I’m not a fan of releasing the automatic and using dynamic because if for some reason you lose one or more dynamics you may be out of control before you react to the situation and make the emergency application.
I used this system on BN between Edgemont and Deadwood with 3.0% grades. The seven pound reduction was to insure no
In relative terms…any idiot can get a train up the mountain with throttle and sanders…only a Engineer can get it down the mountain safely and under control using the various braking systems and techniques that are available and required.
Not true, Ive trained a few conductors and they become very good at the task, and now they are engineers but with the right training it can be done by most anyone, I say that because there is some poeple who cant figure which way a switch needs to be lined to go left or right .
wabash1 wrote:
“That works fine on the older units but the new road units with electronic braking that is impossible as once the train is roling the feed valve is unatainable, and this practice is against the rules set forth by the fra. but if you have a kicker the best way to bringer down is this way.”
They way I read the OP, he was talking about older units without pressure maintaining and he wanted to know how us older folks would have done it.
Back in the day I think he’s talking about, ya “run what ya brung” to the hill. Electronics, ABD, pressure maintaining, computer screens, event recorder, etc have made it (?) better. When everything functions as intended that is.
Pressure maintaining would have been great. Yall got thet stuff nowadays? Of course we had it and graduated release on passenger equipment. I could have brought the train all the way down by just feathering the dynamics. Anyway, facinating, the different takes on this. I hope there is more input coming.