I just read in USA Today (12/18/2003 page 16A) a regulation proposal that would set the maximum volume of train horns and whistles at 110 decibels (as loud as a car horn) and prohibit sounding the horn or whistle more than 20 seconds from a crossing. It seems people have been complaining and the government is listening. This proposal doesn’t seem like a good idea to me . In fact I think it sounds unsafe for motorists and pedestrians. The Federal Railroad Administration will take comments from the public for 60 days.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-12-17-train-noise_x.htm
That’s a link to the article I think you’re talking about. Here’s a link to a PDF of the actual rule that’s being proposed:
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p77/262041.pdf
It is extremely long (103 pages) but here is one of the relevant parts:
I wonder what the current volume level usually is “100 feet in front of the locomotive and 15 feet above the rail”? I’m not in favor of restricting where train horns can be used, or reducing the volume of them. But I would like to know how much difference there actually is between what they are proposing and what the current practice is.
Finally, here is a link where you can view all the current comments on the legislation (and presumably submit your own):
http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResultsSimple.cfm?numberValue=6439&searchType=docket
110 decibels…20 seconds…? with all these people not paying attention (Stay off the tracks topic) at crossings, It should be the other way around.
Why not lower the train horn volume? Motorists already don’t listen to them. They don’t stop at the lowered gates. The don’t listen for a clanging bell. And they definatly don’t look at the flashind red lights.
So of course the volume should not be lowered, it may be the only thing to save some of these risk takers.
Hey, I found a comment from an old “friend” of ours:
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf74/144229_web.pdf
Don’t worry, I didn’t waste my time reading all of it. [:D]
There are some pretty funny comments to be found, athough they all refer to earlier versions of the legislation where it seems the noise level limit wasn’t included. Some of these people must live near wabash1 because they say the horns are louder now and that “the engineers are laying on the horns longer than usual and at such times as 2:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and 4:53, yes 4:53 a.m.”
Would 4:54, yes 4:54 AM have been better? [:p]
–Nora
…The above Horn and loudness data is in our Muncie paper today too…
Forget the horns, whistles, bells, lights whatever…just get rid of all of them. Period. Instead have a large capacitor installed. As you go down the rails, build up an steady charge, then if someone gets in the way. Hit the button and discharge it into the tracks and ZAP.
Why do I get the feeling the same guys who proposed this, are the same folks who want mufflers installed on Dan’s jets?
Ed
I am not in favor of limiting the volume of of horns at grade crossings. The sound pressure level requirement is 110 dBA at 100 feet from the horn and 15 feet above the rail. Neglecting the height above the rails, at 60 mph (88 ft/sec) a train would be 1/4 mile from the grade crossing when the horn is sounded 15 seconds before reaching the grade crossing; the sound pressure level at the grade crossing would be 88 dBA at that time. In general the sound pressure level decreases by 6 db with a doubling of distance thus at 200 feet the sound pressure level would be
104 dBA, 98 dBA at 400 feet, etc.
At 79 mph a train would be 1740 feet from the grade crossing if the horn is sounded 15 seconds before reaching the grade crossing; this would reduce the sound pressre level at the grade crossing at the moment the horn is sounded to 85 dBA
It seems it would be better to set the rule for sounding an air horn at a specified distance before reaching a grade crossing rather than at a certain time before reaching a grade crossing especially if train speeds vary. While a 3 dB difference in the sound pressure level doesn’t seem like a lot it represents a 40% difference in the sound pressure.
They could crank the horn up real loud and people still wouldnt here it because of radios cell phones or just not paying attention!!!.
stop look listen and live!
Matt know when we approach a rr crossing he says train train? If a two year old can fiqure it out whats wrong with these other people!
stay safe
Joe
ahem…gentlemen - it is called being accountable for your own actions. Since this too died, what is left? How much longer will we have to run after adults like they are small children and hover over them because they don’t want to play by the rules.
Mookie
The actual volume of horns and whistles has actually become irrelevant in many areas due to municipal quiet zones. The BNSF Chicago-Aurora main line is covered by these for most of its length. In all fairness, the grade crossings on this line are well protected (gates, flashing lights, etc) and accidents involving pedestrians or autos are surprisingly uncommon when you consider how built up the area near the tracks is. Also, quiet zone ordinances will allow the horn to be sounded when necessary to prevent an accident. This occurs regularly when a suburban rush hour express on the center track overtakes a local near a station or grade crossing.
The loudness of the horn is also irrelevant if nobody pays attention.
As usual… Mookie is SO right! Tragic…
The specified maximum horn volume isn’t actually much lower than today’s. Aside from the minor detail that most drivers pay zilch attention to any warning device, stop sign, or anything else that gets in their way (a corrollary to Mookie’s comment), another problem which is quite relevant is that many cars and SUVs today are so well soundproofed that the locomotive horn is quite literally inaudible over the sound system inside the car. And since people run red lights, never mind grade crossing lights, and slalom around two bar gates… I don’t know what can be done. It’s discouraging.
I recall speaking with someone on the phone some years ago when a train passed the business, horn blaring. She told me that due to an accident they had made the railroad put l o u d e r horns on the locos… How long will it be before some suit-happy lawyer sues a railroad because the horn wasn’t loud enough or sounded long enough to provide sufficient warning to his client…
Tree: You haven’t figured out that this is the first thing they (ambulance chasers) do now?
Mudchicken proposes:
They can have the no-whistle zones IF:
(1) Everybody within 1320 ft of the crossing signs a legal binding document that they will assume the liability for the actions of any motorist using the crossing.
(2) The local government agency will post a surety bond that ALL of the drivers license applicants are guaranteed not to be stooopid louts and understand that railroad crossing rules will be followed to the letter of the law.
(3) Any person found ignoring crossing signals and/or signs IMMEDIATETLY loses ALL driving and license priviledges (It is a priviledge, not a right!!!), and
(4) Any time there is a grade crossing accident, the crossing is closed and barricaded for 30 days (at driver or local government expense) and the name of the offender, his address and telephone number , are posted prominently for all to see as the cause of the closed crossing. (Just like highway construction companies in construction zones)
IF these 4 conditions are not met, live with it.[;)]
Mudchicken[}:)]
(Lived within 100 ft. of a crossing protected only by a wig-wag for 8 years, 20-25 trains per day …and have done countless accident surveys and wonder daily how some of these morons were given the priviledge to get behind the wheel, kill themselves and others plus traumatiize plenty of others)[V]
PS- Bergie, you need an icon with fangs![:D]
This sounds like NIMYB’s (not in my backyard) running amuck again. You know, the ones who told the realestate agent that the proximity of the RR tracks wasn’t a factor in choosing to buy a house then, but now it’s a problem…make the government help!
One possible solution to this problem is remote way-side warning devices. These are horns mounted at the crossing and activated by an approaching train, so the decibel level is constant at crossing. This technology is available only in select areas (that use positive train separation.)
On a sad note, Darwin was right. If these horn bans go into effect as the NIBY’s want, there WILL be more grade-crossing incidents, and a resulting drop in population of non-railfans. Because only railfans stop and look both ways before crossing the tracks, even when the lights aren’t flashing…
interesting
The proposal to quiet horns had to be made by some bleeding hearts that lack basic common sense. As a railfan, I love the sound of a train horns and yet even at 3am I’m sometimes awakened by a horn that an engineer is “laying” on. I assume that someone’s trying to beat the train to the crossing. (mainline is just 1 mile from my house). Lowering the levels would be statistically disastrous.
The K5LA five chime horn is reputed to be the loudest horn on locomotives today (please correct me if I’m wrong) yet, riding in my wife’s car with the windows rolled up, running the a/c and playing music at moderate levels I barely hear the train when it’s just a mile away. CSX freights in my area do about 55-60mph, Amtrak’s Palmetto does 70, and yet not all the grade crossings in my area are protected by gates!
I hope and pray that common sense prevails.
That’s probably one of the most idiotic ideas I’ve heard in a long time! I wonder what the folks at Operation Lifesaver have to say about this. As a railfan, I too love hearing the engineer lay on the horn. Let’s just hope that someone with at least half a brain will realise how stupid this is!
Whatever keeps the idiots off tracks and from driving aroud lowered gates- i say do it!