I think slow movement is more important in MR than fast movement. espcially in small layouts like mine since it makes the layout seem larger especially when combined with view blocks.
Part of reason some of the trains may be moving faster than one would expect is that many especially low end models are geared locosthat way for Kids. In DCC this can sometimes be adjusted, but not always depends on the quality of the decorder.
That’s because we are boys playing with toys. We have out own versions of reality.
How to easily calculate scale speed.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~trains/rroperat.htm
Rich
An interesting twist on this is that for many years, model railroaders and manufacturers worked to make trains run well at slow speeds. People used to take Athearn diesels and add new motors and re-gearing kits to slow them down, and makers like Atlas, Kato and others were applauded for making engines that could maintain a slow steady speed ‘out of the box’. Now in recent years, some people are complaining that their engines run TOO slowly, they want to run SD70s or E units at ‘prototype’ high speeds on mainline trains, but find the engines’ gearing doesn’t allow them to go over 45-50 MPH.
One thing people often forget to factor in are the curves we use. IIRC a 10-degree prototype curve is about the sharpest you’d find on a mainline, and trains would be restricted to around 20-30 MPH. That works out to about 34" radius curves in HO, so someone using “broad” 30" radius curves would probably in the real world have to take the curve at say 15-20 MPH.
Another factor is train length. Let’s say as an example (although I’m sure someone will have to whip out a calculator to give the exact numbers) that we have a loaded DMIR iron ore train of 180 cars. The top speed for loaded ore trains was 30 MPH, and let’s say at that speed it takes 3 minutes for the train to pass you waiting at a grade crossing. Well on a model railroad, a long ore train would be 30 cars. At 30 scale MPH, the train will pass the grade crossing in only 30 seconds. By slowing down to 15 scale MPH, the train will take one minute - still not 3 minutes like the real one, but the longer time will make the train seem longer.
As I remotor my vintage locos, I also regear to give the model a realistic top speed. That way I get graceful starts and I can’t make it go faster than it should.
Good thread.
I like running my locomotives at a realistic scale speed; especially during switching manuevers and on take offs.
Interesting points regarding complaints about newer locomotives having gear ratios that provide outstanding low speed control but sacrifice running at over 65 scale mph.
One aspect that I like about DCC is that higher geared locomotives with decent drives (like the older run LL Proto 2000 E-units) can take off and run realistically at lower speeds without giving up the 90mph+ “racehorse” abilities.
When I was a kid, I used to run my trains fast. As I grew and looked at my trains as scale models instead of toys, I began to prefer to run my trains at a more realistic pace. Now that I’ve gotten really into operations, I keep the speeds at a realistic pace all of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l5TEr0xpQs
Of course, when doing tune up work on locomotives, I tend to run them at a variety of speeds, including faster than normal.
Kevin
Your concern about speed is legitmate. My model railroad is still DC powered. For each train, speed is controlled by a color code. Operating instructions state that maximum speed is red, for example. Each throttle has a series of colored dots denoting various speeds.
The actual speeds have been established by running each train dozens of times and logging the actual time it takes to get from point A to point B. In addition, I operate in the mountains of West Virginia (a coal hauler primarily) so going up a 2%-2.5% grade slows down each train as it climbs a mountain. I’ve run trains at the lowest possible speed to get over the mountains without stalling, which is included in the speed/time calculation.
My (HO) railroad is in a 9’x12’ room with an around the room (3 times) main line. A typical “coal drag” consisting of 9 hoppers takes more than 5 minutes to make a complete circut, non-stop. In prototpe operation (stopping to raise/lower retainers, take on water for steamers, switch the two mine sites, wait for higher priority trains) it takes 45 minutes to an hour to complete a run.
General Freight and passenger trains are subject to similar observations to establish their “maximum” speeds.
Back in about July, 1982, MR had an article on ways to determine speed on the Model Railroad. My mind doesn’t work as well as it did back then. At some point I figuired out a trackside speed indicator. I marked a R.O.W. fence with a fenceposts 22 scale feet apart. Each fence post is marked in intervals of five (5), representing each five MPH of speed. As my engine (or a particular car in the train) goes by zero (0) I count 1000-1, 1000-2, 1000-3. A quick look at the trackside speed chart will give me the train’s speed. I’ve never had digital speedometer to test the accuracy of my speed graph, but it works for me. Maybe someone with DCC, or other digital device can test the graph. It may be that 22-1/2 scale feet , or 24 scale feet, or whatever may be more accurate. I’m pretty pleased with the method on my N-Scale layout. At least it’s better than nothing.
th Old Yard Goat,
Cathlamet, WA
Since this discussion, and since most preferred realistic speeds, I went back and did some more analysis. I would run my trains (HO scale) at speed settings on my DT402 of 25, 30, 35 and 40. It seemed like they were running more realistic and the visual appeal was good. Of course, feeling the need for speed, I started increasing the settings and timing the distance.
At a speed setting of 50, the calcs showed a scale speed of 51 mph. It also showed my track and rolling stock was ok and withstood the higher than normal speeds, not one derailment (knock on wood). Will I run all my trains at speed setting of 50 all the time? Probably not, but it’s nice to know I can and my track, locos and rolling stock can take it.
I believe this is where the decoder peaked, as the scale speed started equaling the speed setting on the DT402. I believe one or two of you mentioned this possibility in another post. One other thing, a speed setting of 45 is where the noise of the wheels/track started to override the sound from the loco.
Thanks for provoking thought and interest!