Spectacular.[bow]
There is nothing left for me to say. Thank you.
Bruce
“+1” - lots of details, filled in some gaps I didn’t even know I didn’t know. Especially appreciate the explanation of the difference between Form 19 and Form 31 orders - don’t know why 3 miles or less to the restriction made a difference, but that’s OK - it’s enough to know that, for now.
Thanks for your time and effort to put that together. [tup]
- Paul North.
Reasoning behind the 3 miles…Train is moving at 30 MPH ± Head end receives the orders, they have to ‘unwrap’ them, read them, understand them and get the train stopped at the point of restriction. If the point of restriction is less than 3 miles it would be difficult to pull the stop off with anything short of a Emergency brake application. Todays rules on my carrier state that if a train is to receive a Mandatory Directive (their wording, not mine) that restricts the train at a point 5 miles or less from the trains current location, the train must be stopped before copying that Mandatory Directive.
BaltACD, with the way the forum has been acting lately this is the first evening I have had a chance to get in and once again thank you for your excellent explanation of train order operation. Not only was my father an Operator, Agent, and a Dispatcher, but my uncle was an Operator as well. Your post brought back numerous memories of both of them at work, and I could recall many specific examples of the items you mentioned.
Since the original poster was from Guelph, ON, I wanted to mention a couple of more points related to the Canadian situation. Ulrich wrote:
was there a technological breakthrough in the 80s that did away with the operator and the hoop that eventually led to what we have now?
In Canada you had two tracks of development, if you will. Where demand warranted you had the deployment of CTC, starting around 1960 between Calgary and Gleichen, AB, on the mainline. But on the other hand you had TT&TO operations right up to January of 1986, with the deployment of the MBS radio/computer train control system.
CTC, in Canada, was not the bargain it might have seemed in terms of cost reductions because of the deployment and ongoing maintenance costs caused by the extreme distances and climate involved. The CPR retained a culture wherein employees passed on the knowledge their predecessors learned from the old TT&TO days. One of the most interesting examples o
A couple of comments from my brief experience as a train order operator in 1974 on the CPR. The Form 31 order had disappeared long before, probably with the new rule book of 1962. But the Form 19 came in two flavours, 19Y and 19R. The latter was probably very similar to the old Form 31, since it required the train to come to a stop and at least one crew member sign the operator’s copy. It was most commonly used when it was restricting trains at that station.
When issuing an order, the dispatcher would indicate which version of the Form 19 would be used, and the operator would set his signal to the appropriate indication before replying with the signal shown. Then he would start copying the order.
Normally there was no train order signal at a terminal, since all crews would have to sign in at the station and pick up train orders, waybills and any other paperwork. This is not absolute, especially where the passenger and freight terminals were separated by several miles.
Somebody asked why radio was not used earlier. In part it was because it would require a major change in operating practices. As mentioned, there were union craft issues if the train crews started doing the work formerly done by the telegraphers. When the conductor still rode in the caboose, both head-end and tail-end crews would have to separately repeat the order, tying up the dispatcher even longer. Radio technology also had to evolve. The band and signal strength meant several base towers would be needed on each subdivision. The dispatcher had to be able to select which tower to use so he didn’t clutter the airwaves over hundreds of miles. In reverse, the train crew needed to also be able to put the nearest radio tower on-line when they wanted to call the dispatcher. It is relatively easy with the micro-processors and solid state integrated circuits of today. Relays and vacuum tubes posed more of a challenge to get the near 100% r
That was a great vid and thx for sharing. Times may be a little more modern now with how things are done, but it’s still rugged country out there. I rode thru it on the Canadian, but not in winter.