Train set and layout.

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

First a little about me. I’m a history enthusiast and researcher. My area of focus is architectural history in my local community. I am an advocate and proponent of re purposing and refitting historical buildings for modern use rather than tearing them down to build a new building. This is important because it ties in with my idea for a train set layout.

Second Hy-Vee is a employee owned grocery store chain found all over the mid-west. It is one of the largest, if not the largest in the mid-west. They started in Chariton, Iowa in 1930 and are now headquartered in West Des Moines, Iowa. This is important because of the type of train set I have.

My train set is the HO scale Hy-Vee Savings Express.

The engine, from what I understand is an SD-40, with the Hy-Vee logo and engine number 1996 on it. 1996 is also the year the train set was produced and sold by Hy-Vee.

The cars include:

A reefer box car with the Maxwell House Coffee, Kraft Macaronis and Cheese Dinner, Jello and Lender Bagel’s logos on it. Another reefer box car has the Kool-Aid, Kraft Velveeta Cheese, Stove Top Stuffing Mix and Oscar Mayer logos on it.

The flat bed has 2 shipping containers with Kraft Philadelphia Cream Cheese, Honeycomb Cereal, Kraft Singles and Miracle Whip Salad Dressing logos on them.

The tanker has the Log Cabin Syrup logo on it.

The caboose has the Kraft Grated Parmesan Cheese log on it.

The set is made by IHC.

The layout is going to be the train as it would pull into a regional food storage warehouse/distribution center to unload the cars on the track side docks. On the other side will be truck docks where trucks will be loaded to take haul the food to the individual stores in the region.

On the Walthers web site I found a Cornerstone Modular foundation and docks, part number 933-3724, flat roof kit # 933-3721, roof detail kit, #933-3733 as well as the various wall kits with vehicle doors, arched windows, tall and short walls, etc.

2

The 4x8 is most likely to be biggest limitation on what you can accomplish, or can do to meet your goals. Yet you are partially committing to that path without determining whether or not the 4x8 platform can accomplish what you want - especially when broken into 2x4 chunks in HO scale. A 4x8 is not a generous platform in HO. It will probably force the focus point (the distribution center) to be inside a loop of track, assuming you are going to have a full loop for continuous running.

The starting point is and should be the footprint of the distribution center (should be in the Walther

3

I have to agree with Fred’s comments.

4

I have used the Atlas software. It is okay but as was mentioned it only has Atlas items and not all of them. there is another product called Anyrail. It may be found at www.anyrail.com . It is very easy to use but the free demo version has a 50 element limit. For instance once you use 50 pieces of track it will not let you go any further on that plan. One has to delete elements to continue. If you purchase a license then you can do track plans in any scale and for any size of layout. It also has the track libraries to go with each scale. With the free Anyrail you may be able to design certain parts of the layout but again once you get to 50 you have to start over. I think it is very easy to use and the learning curve for it is not that high. Other than the 50 element limit I do not recall if there are any features that are not functional until you buy the program.

Good luck.

5

There is also XTrkCad as a freeware. Do a Google search and you´ll find the download page.

Just a little word of warning. CAD programs will help you draw a track plan and do the “sanitary” check, whether all will fit together. However, they won´t do the actual design work for, so don´t expect miracles.

All programs have a learning curve to them. How steep that is finally depends on your own ability to handle such systems. I am quite happy with the Atlas freebie RTS, whereas others seem to favor AnyRail, 3rdPlanit or any of the zillion others around in the world.

6

My first question would be whether this layout is intended for your enjoyment, or as an advertising tool, because I’d do it differently depending.

If you really want to operate it, then sidings, passing track, etc. have to be well thought out and functional (that is, long enough for your longest train and then some).

If for display, you want something that will keep running without a lot of fuss and muss, and sidings / passing track, etc. will be just for show.

7

It will be for both. The switches and sidings will have to be functional when I am using it. When on public display the train will only travel in the continuous loop. If on display at the local Hy-Vee grocery stores I will set it up with a time so it will only run during certain times of the day. If it is on display at a museum I will show the person there how to operate it. Typically the folks that operate and control animated displays at museums know what they are doing a train controller is not that difficult for them. They may even set it up on a timer at a museum as well.

Before it is ever put on public display I will need to build an clear acrylic box for it to keep people from touching it add throwing things onto the layout.

8

There has been a change to the layout platform. PArt of the intention of this is to be transportable in my current vehicle, a 2007 Jeep Compass. I thought at first a 4’ x 4’ section would fit. I was wrong. The plat form will be built out of 1/2" x 2’ x 4’ sections of OSB, with 1/2" homosote on top. For the framing I am using 2" x 4" and 2" x 2". It will be put together with alignment pins/dowels and folding legs in the corners.

I am currently working on building the deck for 2 of the 2’ x 4’ sections. Once done with them, before I start applying the homosote, etc. I am going to layout the track on these 2 sections to see how much room I have. If there is enough I’ll continue.

This is the easy part. The hard part will be figuring out the woiring nad power to each section of track.

I come from a designe/drafting/engineering back ground so I can figure most things out pretty easily. But with wiring, not so much. Any help on that would be appreciated.

9

I’ve used both the Atlas RTS program and XTrakCad. The former is easier to learn, but the latter is much more powerful. When my computer crashed, I didn’t bother to download the Atlas program again.

Take a look a couple of years back for the design of Model Railroader’s “beer line” modular layout. This was cleverly thought out, and built on modules that were not only relatively portable, but also, to some extent, re-arrangeable depending on the space available. So, you could set them up as a table layout with a continuous running loop, or as a more linear point-to-point layout.

Are you really going to move this around a lot? If the answer is yes, fine, but if your hope is to have something that you can cart around easily, with no specific plans or reason to do so, then you might want to reconsider. You could end up doing a lot of work for very little gain. If you have a couch or a large mattress that won’t fit in your car, then you’ll need a larger vehicle to move anyway.

On the other hand, if you really do want to take this around a show it, why not build it to one of the modular specifications, so that it can link up with other modules in a larger scheme? There are specs for the NMRA system, as well as a new concept called Free-Mo, which offers a lot of individuality by being less restrictive in size and orientation.

10

Big mistake! The modules will be way too heavy and probably not strong enough…

Use plywood with (pink or blue) insuation fome, plywood alone or insulation foam alone for the surface.

Use plywood for the framing. It is lighter,stronger, less likely to twist or warp, and more dimensionally stable than lumber.

Suggest you reaserch modular layout construction on the Web.

11

Track nails will not stick in the pink insulation foam very well. Homosote is better for this application. I have completed 2 of the 2’ x 4’ platforms. Granted they do not have the homosote on them yet, but they are not heavy at all. Along the length and width of the outside edges are the 2" x 4"'s. Along the length and width of the inside edges, where it will be connected together are 2" x 2"'s.

I know I am not experienced at model railroading, but i am experienced at designing and building things with framing like this. I have designed and constructed other things that had to be a lot more load bearing than this with less material and it has yet to fail on me. If I have to I can put support pieces in the middle of the 2’ x 4’ sections, but I think that will be a bit overkill and will only add

12

Hmmmm. I think you will end up sub-optimizing the layout. What’s fun to operate doesn’t work very well for something that will or must operate largely unattended. Or will you have a dedicated operator actually running / demonstrating the layout full time?

13

I’ve built seven 2’x4’ NTRAK modules using 1" x 4" lumber, transported them to and set up at at a lot of shows. That was standard years ago when I built them in the 1980’s. I have also transported and assisted in the set up of plywood framed modules. Plywood modules are stronger and also much lighter and easier to handle. I also built two 18’ NTRAK modules (each consisting of three 6’ sections).

I strongly suggest you research what others have built. Very experienced modular model railroaders have put a great deal of effort into designing strong light weight modules because they found that the earlier designs using dimensional lumber were too heavy to manhandle easily and quickly developed structural problems.

One NTRAKer (an Architect) builds his light weight modules with plastic franing.

14

I have researched this. I talked with other model railroaders, including the owner of the LHS in my city who builds model railroads. They all advised 1/2" x 2’ x 4 OSB with 2" x 2" and 2" x 4" framing underneath it, 1" x 4" facia board on the outside edges, with 1/2" homosote for the top surface and with each module having its own set of folding table legs will be strong enough. They are confident this set up will be structurally sound.

Each module will have its own set of handles to carry it. All 4 modules will be held together with alignment pins and draw catches. On each module will be 3 draw catches and 3 alignment pins or holes along the 2’ length and 4 draw catches with 4 alignment holes or pins along the 4’ length.

A long time ago I used 1/2" x 2’ x 4’ plywood and 1" x 2" board for framing to construct a bike trainer platform. The platform held my bike trainer in place so I could mount my road bike to it and train in the winter time. It had to hold the weight of the trainer, the bike when attached to the trainer and me when I would ride it. It had a lot of pressure and torque put on it that was transmitted down through the trainer and into the platform, especially when I would stand and sprint on the bike. Once I put so much torque into my riding the entire platform with the trainer on it, the bike connected to the trainer and me on the bike started to slide across the carpet. I still have the platform, but not the trainer. It never failed to hold up to the use and abuse I put it through.

The modular railroad layout platform I am building will not have nearly that much weight, pressure or torque put on it as my trainer platform did. The train set does not weigh that much and will not go nearly as fast as I did when riding my bike on the trainer. For starters the framing is 2" x 2"'s and 2" x 4"'s not 1" x 2"'s. I doubt it will fail. If anything I am over building each module.

15

[quote user=“SUX V R40 Rider”]

I have researched this. I talked with other model railroaders, including the owner of the LHS in my city who builds model railroads. They all advised 1/2" x 2’ x 4 OSB with 2" x 2" and 2" x 4" framing underneath it, 1" x 4" facia board on the outside edges, with 1/2" homosote for the top surface and with each module having its own set of folding table legs will be strong enough. They are confident this set up will be structurally sound.

Each module will have its own set of handles to carry it. All 4 modules will be held together with alignment pins and draw catches. On each module will be 3 draw catches and 3 alignment pins or holes along the 2’ length and 4 draw catches with 4 alignment holes or pins along the 4’ length.

A long time ago I used 1/2" x 2’ x 4’ plywood and 1" x 2" board for framing to construct a bike trainer platform. The platform held my bike trainer in place so I could mount my road bike to it and train in the winter time. It had to hold the weight of the trainer, the bike when attached to the trainer and me when I would ride it. It had a lot of pressure and torque put on it that was transmitted down through the trainer and into the platform, especially when I would stand and sprint on the bike. Once I put so much torque into my riding the entire platform with the trainer on it, the bike connected to the trainer and me on the bike started to slide across the carpet. I still have the platform, but not the trainer. It never failed to hold up to the use and abuse I put it through.

The modular railroad layout platform I am building will not have nearly that much weight, pressure or torque put on it as my trainer platform did. The train set does not weigh that much and will not go nearly as fast as I did when riding my bike on the trainer. For starters the framing is 2" x 2"'s and 2" x 4"'s not 1" x 2"'s. I doubt it will fail. If anything I am over building each module.

[/quote

16

On the top surface will be the landscape material. It will be a grayish color to emulate concrete. On that will be cork roadbed with the track fastened to it. The track nails will be long enough to go through the cork and into the homosote. I will also use ballast to finish the look of the bed.

2 of platforms are constructed with just the OSB and framing. Tonight I will drill the holes for the alignment dowels and glue them in place on one side and attach the draw catches.

17

The 4’ x 8’ build continues to progress. All 4 sections are framed with alignment pins along the length of both.

Tonight I will finish installing the draw catches along the length of 2 of the sections and install the alignment pins along the width. I had to wait on the alignment pins and draw catches along the width because I needed another saw horse to hold all 4 sections in place at once before I could drill the holes for the pins.

NExt week I start installing the folding table leg sets to each of the 4 sections. After that it is installing the homosote and then the facia board around the outside edges.

18

Ok, this is officially beginning to SUCK! I purchase dmy nice new adjustable saw horse. It is made of steel, adjusts up to 34" or 36" high and the top is over 24" long. When paired with another like it it will hold over 2,000 pounds. So this is not a cheap piece of equipment.

The problem is it is not the same height as my other 2 saw horses. Why? My other 2 older saw horses have a 2" x 4" for the top piece with the frame made of steel. It is not an even universal height because of the top piece. Nothing I do can change that. LAst night I tried all sorts of things to get this to work so I could continue with the 4’ x 8’ HO scale build.

Now I have to purchase at least 1 if not 2 more saw horses that will be same universal height so all 4 sections of the 4’ x 8’ modules can be supported while I work on them. Liek I said this sucks and I have to admit is a bit discouraging because the new saw horses are not cheap, I can only afford one at a time which will push this build back by a few weeks. I’m not on any sort of time table or deadline but wanted to be further than this by the end of the year. If it is one thing this new hobby has taught me is to be more patient.

To keep going on this hobby and to not get so discourged I just stop doing it I am going to switch my focus to building a protable layout for the N scale set I have. It is small enough I should have no problem building a layout that is 2’ x 4’, or if necessary 4’ x 4’. Either way I only need 2 saw horses for that, which I have had all along.

Anyone else ever experience issues like this with building a layout? Is this type of set back normal? Any words of encouragment would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for letting me vent.

19

Yes, setbacks are quite normal in my experience. Some of my more severe setbacks:

  • started an HO 4x8 with handlaid track. Rent turned out to be more than we could afford. Moved to a different house on the wrong side of the tracks. Spare bedroom would not hold a 4x8, had to cut it down to a 4x6. Which meant redoing track plan and a good part of my handlaid track. Turned out to be a much better layout later on.
  • just built a 60" high 4x6 “temporary” layout benchwork to go over a computer work station. At that height, layout was too high to even see properly, much less work on. Cut legs to move layout down to 55" - minimum to provide headroom
20

I presume the reason for the sawhorses is to get an even top surface of the layout?

Turn sections upside down and lay them flat surface down on your floor. You now have a level top (unless your floor is extremely bumpy …).

Clamp together. Drill.

Stein