I have ridden #6 three times over the past two years. And I have ridden #5 once during the same period. All four trips were between San Francisco and Denver. On #6 the sleepers were at the front of the train, but on the #5 that I rode the sleepers were at the rear of the train. I had a sleeper on on four trips. If I remember correctly, my trip on #5 was in February or early March.
Its early yet. Lots of stories on the net and lots of comments and speculation, too. One story says the trucking company had numeroud violations against it including one truck with bald enought tires to be taken off the road. So? What is normal violation number for trucking company that size in Nevada? Anyplace else? It is so easy to take shots at the driver and his company and trucks in general at this early point in time. Only accusation, and the most accurate, will be from the authorites at NTSP and Nevada State Police, when the investigation is complete.
Henry, I half agree with you. The story says there were seven violations, with the bald tires issue being the most serious. I agree that it would be helpful to know whether seven violations is a high number for a trucking company of that size. I consider myself a good driver, but that doesn’t mean I’ve never gotten a ticket or wrecked a car on an icy road. The story I’m looking at admits as much, saying, “It’s not clear whether the spotty record was typical in the trucking industry.”
On the other hand, trucking companies are in the business of putting vehicles on the road that are dramatically larger than those driven by people like you and I. When something goes wrong, it can have fatal consequences. I guess it’s a matter of opinion, but in my own opinion, if a trucking company is allowing its semis to go out on public roads with mechanical defects so severe they could cause an accident, that’s a cause for concern. It doesn’t prove a pattern
Yes indeed.
Its also a question on why was someone who had 4 violations in 3 months able to drive a school bus.
There was a train-school bus crash some years ago - the crash took place in Tennessee, but was a Georgia bus, if I recall correctly (the NTSB has the report up). Apparently the driver got into the habit of never stopping (as required on school buses) at the crossing and one day ran into a train. Several children were killed but I believe that the driver survived and faced manslaughter charges.
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jeaton wrote the following post on Monday, June 27, 2011
Andy and Bob J.
Thanks for covering my question.
By the way, I am taking the CZ to Denver early next month, so I have checked the train schedule and am also watching performance status. I noted that at the time of the wreck, the CZ was running almost 5 hours late. Due in Reno 8:30am.
Sometimes fate…
Yes! I think we all appreciate the envolvement of Both Andy as Trains Editor and Bob Johnson as a reporter.
This incident has been newsworthy since it was first reported in the national media. Unfortunately as with many of these types of incidents where facts seem short in checked content and anecdotes are reported as facts. The Truth is always left to be sorted out at some point after the fact. Or so it would seem.
Granted the remoteness of the incident from a large adjacent community has recreated former incidents with AMTRAK incidents of the past. The Sunset Ltd incident in 1993 near Saraland Al. at Bayou Canot killed 47 in that remote swampland.
Chase, Maryland killed 16 people in a head-on with a commuter train killed 16.
As well there have been others, I don’t have the heart to go into. But there are lessons to be learned at each. Sleeping Cars on the head ends seem to cause many fatalities.
My real concern in hashing these incidents out is that we are not letting the professionals do their jobs and possibly giving the inevitable bunch of ambulance chasers ammunition. I grieve for those killed and will wait to read the reports when completed.[2c]
I have a feeling that the driver’s driving record is going to be really in the limelight as this unfolds. The news reporting needs to find out what made the driver tick, so to speak.
A factoid such as this can be used to cover up real facts, too. I hope it isn’t used for that.
Yes, I agree.
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I’m not clear the purpose of starting a 2nd thread on this horrible incident.
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I recall a thread some months back about two car drivers independently running into a train of empty tank cars at an inoperative crossing at night in Chicago. In that case, most posters totally blamed the drivers. Here we have a truck, in broad daylight daylight in the middle of nowhere with excellent visibility, with a crossing gate that worked, unable to stop his truck in over 300 feet. But we have a sizable number of posters who seem very reluctant to place the blame on him, much less bring up the late CD award.
I haven’t seen this mentioned in any of the notes in this thread (although, since I can’t immediately find my glasses, i may have overlooked it), but the Amtrak locomotive almost certainly had a camera, and thus recorded at least part of the incident. I’m also pretty sure that NTSB will do whatever it can to prevent the film from becoming public and showing up on internet sites. The tragic Metrolink Chatsworth accident was also recorded by a locomotive camera (on the UP loco) and, to my knowledge, NTSB has never let go of the film. I understand that NTSB’s sensitivity to this issue arose from an earlier BNSF accident where a copy of a locomotive camera film that was given only to government officials ended up on the internet.
Not knowing the width of the angle view of the cameras in Amtrak engines, my first thought was that the truck might have not come into the view of the camera before the engine crossed the highway. However, the tracks are not 90 degrees to the highway, rather at 135/45 degree angles. The train was moving southwest and the truck was moving north which would increase the chance that the truck came in view of the camera. No doubt, any images of the truck would aid in the calculation of impact speeds.
I had a conversation with one of the truck drivers that deliver to the paper mill I work at and here is his take on the wreck: He said it is common for truckers from the same company to make bets on who can complete their runs first and the payoff is usually bought drinks at the local watering hole or food at the local eatery.
He surmises the lead trucker had probaly traded positions off and on with the other truckers in the convoy and when he finally took the lead saw an opportunity to use the train as a “blocker” to maintain position and only at the last minute realized he couldn’t make it and hit the brakes. This trucker also figured that the 300 foot skid marks were probably the result of speeds in excess of 90 to 100 mph as also evidenced by the tractor almost totally being engulfed by the train car.
I can’t say weather this is accurate or not but it is interesting to hear a viewpoint from a trucker’s perspective.
Pat.
I saw a story in the LA Times to the effect that the 2 other truck drivers said they saw the approaching train clearly and were slowing down. Visibility is quite good at that crossing. They were surprised to see the lead truck maintaining his speed until well past a safe stopping distance. He locked up his brakes and skidded into the train. I think they said that he jackknifed his trailer also. I have not seen this account anywhere else, so I wonder at its accuracy. The LA Times is usually pretty good on these things. Their reporter who did the follow-ups on the Chatsworth crash did a very good job.
Jack
To the Trains staff:
One thing I would like to learn is details of the four speeding tickets that the driver has recently gotten. How much over the speed limit were they, and what was the speed limit where he got them?
[quote user=“Jack_S”]
I saw a story in the LA Times to the effect that the 2 other truck drivers said they saw the approaching train clearly and were slowing down. Visibility is quite good at that crossing. They were surprised to see the lead truck maintaining his speed until well past a safe stopping distance. He locked up his brakes and skidded into the train. I think they said that he jackknifed his trailer also. I have not seen this account anywhere else, so I wonder at its accuracy. The LA Times is usually pretty good on these things. Their reporter who did the follow-ups on the Chatsworth crash did a very good job.
Jack
Yardmaster01 [Pat] wrote
I had a conversation with one of the truck drivers that deliver to the paper mill I work at and here is his take on the wreck: He said it is common for truckers from the same company to make bets on who can complete their runs first and the payoff is usually bought drinks at the local watering hole or food at the local eatery.
He surmises the lead trucker had probaly traded positions off and on with the other truckers in the convoy and when he finally took the lead saw an opportunity to use the train as a “blocker” to maintain position and only at the last minute realized he couldn’t make it and hit the brakes. This trucker also figured that the 300 foot skid marks were probably the result of speeds in excess of 90 to 100 mph as also evidenced by the tractor almost totally being engulfed by the train car.
I can’t say weather this is accurate or not but it is interesting to hear a viewpoint from a trucker’s perspective.
&nb
Cell phone records will certainly be checked?
Crandell
One on his Driving Record with CVSA 2010 in effect now 3 or more tickets in less than 3 years his CDL should have been pulled already. 2 2 or more 15 or more over he is DONE peroid by any insurance company as a Driver of Any Commerical Vechile. 3 with Fuel costs were they are it is rare but not unheard of to have a truck that is Geared to run over 100 but Computered limted to a max of 70 mph. What needs to be done to solve alot of the rushing around is getting rid of the JIT delivery system. Trucks and Trains are NOT your warehouses all we are is the shipment system not what is holding your InVENTORY or the parts you need for that shifts production.
Just-In-Time delivery is not going to go away because that’s what the customer wants. Fail to provide that level of service and the customer will look elsewhere. The goods in transit are still accounted for as inventory even though they aren’t sitting in a warehouse.
As long as the railroads and trucks can and will provide Just In Time service, and are able to charge at a good rate of return, then why not? If it means stacking trains one behind the other on the main so nothing can get through, well, that’s a different story.