I have a feeling most model trees are undersized, especially in O scale. Anyone know of any useful links that will show me “how big are (real) trees”?
This might be a good start: http://www.arborday.org/trees/treeguide/browsetrees.cfm
Yep, it sure would be!
As an arborist, I can tell you that it depends upon place as much as it does type of tree. A tree of the same type in a fertile stream valley will grow larger, obviously, than one on a rocky slope. Trees on true mountains are incrementally smaller with slope and exposure as anyone who has taken a ski lift can attest. On the east coast (which is what i’m familiar with), there can be difference in the age of a forest, depending upon when it was last cleared. Land that was recently cleared tend to be more populated by birches, cherries, spruces, maples and other fast-growing first cycle trees. That’s a 30’ to 40’ canopy, say (unless cleared a few years ago, in which case the trees and smaller and there should be a lot of bushy growth). Older oak, hickory, tulip poplar, beech forests are generally in the 50’ to 65’ foot canopy (and that’s a generous “generally”), with large individual specimens present above that. I say up to 65’ on the tall side because there is precious little old growth forest left on the east coast (virtually no virgin forest) - most places that aren’t utterly mountainous were cleared or farm or dairyland until relatively recently…an important consideration if you are modeling the 1950s. Species like dogwoods are subcanopy shade trees best set against the edge of the taller forest, where it meets farmland, say. Is there anything nicer than the flowering dogwoods peeking out of the forest in the spring? They should be no taller than 20-25’, and scraggly. Dogwoods in yards are not generally representative of their forest shape or size. Species like beech and sycamore are flood plain trees and can get prodigious in width - make your river bank trees stout. White pine forests in New England get you into the 80’ range, and sugar maple forests in the 50-60’ range, again with larger specimens present. One thing I notice with Appalac
I agree that most trees are undersized. A full sized large tree is VERY large. However in some scenes they look good, like a logging camp. In other areas decreasingly small trees, like up a mountain side, help the sence of perspective. As previously stated, city trees are different than rural trees and old growth is different than second growth. In my logging camp I have full sized old growth Norway pine so I can make everything else look small. Show us your experments so we can all learn together.
Shawnee: I’m thinking, hmmmmm. that’s an awful lot of trees, maybe a rethink is in order and I should be thinking about a layout on the prairies, just outside Moose Jaw, 14 miles of flat prairie soil with less than 3 feet difference in elevation and the only trees are poplar or Manitoba maple(box elder) and Saskatoon bushes(serviceberry) down in the creek beds. Great information about the trees.
Something else comes to mind…
Weed trees too, don’t forget about them. I haven’t seen anyone selling these, but they would be easy to make and are a part of reality. Rail yards, highway and track sides, industrial areas and farm areas all have scrawny, scraggly weed trees, such as black locust, black cherries, alders and invasive non-natives, such as Ailanthus, that nasty Chinese weed that pokes out of every nook and crany in urban and waste place settings south of Maine. It looks a like like a tall sumac (a native bush), with exotic-looking leaves. It was brought in to help create erosion barriers on farms, and just got out of control because of prolific seeding, and grows in thick groves, often with a lot of thin, bony trees, about 15’ to 20-25’ in height. It’s one of the only things that can grow in a forbidding zone like that at the base of track ballast or on the sides of highways or slag heaps. I hate them, I’m sure railroads must hate them too, since they probably occupy a good bit of MOW clearing activity. But they are unbiquitous, and an industrial eastern scene or scraggly Appalachian farm or a lot of trackside areas wouldn’t be without them. Including them would ratchet up the scenery realism.
How about …
This? … (click to enlarge)
Jfugate…awesome shot! Extremely cool, doing redwood country, eh? Them’s tall trees!
Tatans…well yes, doing a forest does require a lot of trees. [:D] There are obviously ways around modeling each individual one, however. It’s just that i’ve seen a lot of “cotton ball” canopies on layouts that otherwise look terrific, but miss an element by being so uniform and blanket, with little deviation or gaps in the canopy as in nature. Paying attention to those kinds of details can really pay off with impact, and really complement a great scene.
Your Canadian prarie scene sounds terrific too, though. Hmmmm…Canadian Serviceberry…beautiful white flowers in early spring, very hardy, a beautiful little tree…highly recommended for the garden, too. I have several in my yard! [:)]
Jfugate…your layout is amazing. Took a look at your site, awesome. I had to check to be sure your photo wasn’t real. You did an amazing job with the scenery. Trees are awesome, esp. the low dieback on the redwoods.
I just remembered, don’t you guys down south have something called KUDZU ? ? now why not just cover your layout with a big thick layer of green foliage, just how far north does kudzu grow?? any info on this stuff??
Just to be perfectly clear here … the photo I posted earlier is my friend Charlie Comstock’s layout. I also have some of these larger trees on my own layout, for example, as in this photo:
(Click to enlarge)
Charlie and I live within 45 minutes of each other and we regularly operate on each other’s layouts. Charlie and I have similar taste in scenery as well. Love those large conifers …
Check out your library for a good “Field Guide” and if they don’t have one check out either Border’s or Barnes and Noble; I have several in my library. Even Hundman brought out a book on trees a few years back, which, surprisingly, has proven very useful. These small volumes show what a specific tree looks like, gives a measure of its dimensions, and usually has a small map outlining its range.
As respondent shawnee stated lowland trees tend to be larger than upland trees.
Oh Tatans… Kudzu, the mother of all noxious non-native weeds! Well, thank goodness they don’t have it far north as Virginia. It’s mostly southeast…Georgia, Alabama, etc. The stuff evidently can grow a foot overnight, and just swallows up the landscape, yes. So that would indeed be a good application of the fake-pirate-beard polyester, painted green, spread across a layout, if you model that area. [(-D]
This stuff was actually introduced by the government! In the 30s, they had the civilian conservation corps plans tons of the stuff throughout the south. Man, was that ignorance in action. They say now that cotton isn’t king in the south, Kudzu is.
They did experiments, if i recall right, in which they tried to kill the stuff with a dozen herbicides. 11 of them did nothing, and one of them actually make it grow faster!
One of the guys at the club built an HO model of the famous redwood ‘General Sherman" the thing was about 4" at the base and about 4’ tall. Everyone thought he was nuts, there’s no tree that’s that big. But, he was right ,although it sure didn’t look right.
Shawnee,
Thanks for the great info, already cut, pasted and saved for use when planting trees! Kudzu has made it all the way to Tennessee, when it takes over, it really takes over. Some folks have tried to use it in various forms to either eat or drink (tea).
Its amazing how just a few trees can really bring out a scene. We’re building modules based on southern Kansas and there are just not a lot of trees in some of the scenes, but the ones that are there are really important to setting the scene.
Rick
Shawnee,
Great information. Priceless. I printed it and will use it often in the future. Thanks for saving me time and frustration.
Some time ago, somebody started a post with a comment on the size of a certain commercial model tree, which, IIRC, was about 24 scale feet tall. At the time, I commented that its size could represent:
- New landscape planting in a subdivision, at the one model among the unfinished houses.
- A full size tree in West Texas.
- A young sapling growing on a clear-cut hillside in Oregon.
- Underbrush in the coastal regions of Northern California.
OTOH, modeling some species ‘full scale size’ would be overwhelming!
The best bet is to work from photos of your prototype area, preferably from the era you’re modeling.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with a cedar forest, partially clear-cut)
Kudzu [#oops] It’s not just in the south anymore. Just 10 miles east of St. Louis, in Madison County Illinois they have converted most of the abandoned railroads into bike trails. We love to travel them seeing the vegatation and wildlife in slow motion just as it would have been if the trains were still operating, and there is Kudzu on at least one of the trails in Maryville, Illinois. Obviously it hitched a ride on the train. [:-^]
Woodlandtoots
BRVRR and RedGray…thanks! Hey, it’s nice to be able to offer something here on the forum, since I ask for help on other stuff most of the time.
Kudzu…Woodland, you made me go and re-check. Last I dealt with Kudzu was in college, and that was, er, a while ago. [:-^] Seems that Kudzu has also invaded Virginia! Yikes. All the way up the Pennsylvania, according to the Va. natural resources dept., though, luckily, I’ve never seen it with any concentration that I can recall. I’ll have to keep my eyes open for it. Usually I’m looking out for two things, trees, and poison ivy. [:D]
Here’s an idea for a “scenic design element”…A big ol’ tree, having been blown over in a storm wind (alas, it was it’s time), it’s root ball still full of dirt, on it’s side, having ripped a rather large hole in the earth. Happens all the time in nature. How many times have you seen that walking through an eastern woods, or on the side of the road? That would be something that catches the eye, lends realism.
Another idea, patches of wildflowers on the sides of woodland rivers and streams. Waterways are the natural conduit for wildflower seedings, as they get deposited along with rich silt on the meandering riverbanks following storms. A lot of streams/rivers i’ve seen on layouts don’t contain the kind of lush vegetation one would see on a rural waterway, including wildflowers, even amongst the rocks. Probably only rural waterway you wouldn’t seem 'em is farmland where the cows would eat them. Gives an opportunity to use landscape material other than brown or green!