I found this picture on northeast.railfan.net. I wanted to model B&O #2409 as my grandfather used it in the Connelsville Yard 1964. I only see a single round window in the picture of B&O #2407. Should I just assume #2409 was a modified EMD E6B simmilar to the picture of #2407?
Or I could use this picture
2409 is listed as a E7.
Hi, and… [#welcome]
It can be pretty difficult to pin down photos of a particular engine, especially B units since, well, they were usually sandwiched between A units and/or the rest of the train. It seems that photographers tidn’t really pay much attention to the homely B unit, either.
Your E6B 2409 was built as #59 in 9-1940 then renumbered to 59-X in 1947 and finally 2409 in early 1957. It was sold for scrap on 4/16/1968.
I seem to recall that many of the E6s were rebuilt sometime in 1953 and many, if not all getting an “updated” look. That made “spotting” a little trickier.
The B&O rebuilt many of the EMD passenger engines over the years using stainless air intake grilles, upgrading internal equipment and seemingly random blanking of both the square windos and round windows of the E-6 and E-8 & 9s respectively. Many of the later E’s didnt have any “portholes” The one in the photo of 2407 was retained so the hostler could get a bit of a view as he moved the engine by itself, as you can see him doing in the top photo of the No. 62x.
You may have to settle for “good-enough” unless you can track down actual photos through books or the B&O Historical Society Sentinal Magazine.
Good Luck, Ed
Close, but not quite.
B&O never owned an E7B. They bought E6A’s, E6B’s, and E7A’s, but no E7B’s. When they were new, the external appearance of an E7B was identical, or very close to it, to that of an E6B. Over the years, B&O replaced the side panels on a lot of these units, and grilles were added over the upper panels. That’s what you are seeing. The tipoff is the roof detail, which is about the same on E6’s and 7’s, but quite different on the prewar units and the later E8’s and E9’s.
B&O’s modifications of these units also included elimination of the streamlined pilot from the E6A’s, replacing it with a stubby freight pilot, with a negative effect on the aesthetic look of the engines.
Tom
gmpullman
Thanks for the welcome to the MR forum!
You’re welcome for the Welcome, Graymatter!
I found a copy of one of my B&O Historical Society Sentinal Magazines, V. 27 #2; 2Q 2005, with a short article on the E6 fleet. There’s 2 photos of B units, the 2407 in 1967 at Willard and the 58B near Chicago in 1946.
Both photos look very similar to the two that you posted above, other than they’re both in black & white, so there’s really no new information to speak of in the article.
Your grandfather must have worked with many more engines than the 2409. Was there something special that your grandfather was involved with regarding that particular engine? Just curious.
Are you planning to use a Life-Like HO E6B? Or are you aiming for something else.
Regards, Ed
Some b units did have controls at one end for moving them around facilities. That round window is where those controls are. The hostler would open.it and stick his head out. I rarely see pics of that.
The top photo that Graymatter posted shows the hostler using the open window for that purpose. I commented on it in my first reply.
Regards, Ed
was going by a list of units and it said E-7’s were the 2400 number range, not a B&O fan .
B&O’s four digit diesel number series, adopted at the beginning of 1957, isn’t too hard to understand once you get used to it. The first digit indicated the type of loco, and the second digit indicated builder.
For the first digit, a passenger A unit was 1; a passenger B unit was 2; a passenger road switcher was 3; a freight cab A unit was 4; a freight cab B unit was 5; a 4-motor hood unit was 6; a 6-motor hood unit was 7; a switcher under 900 h.p. was 8; and a switcher 900 h.p. or more was 9.
For the second digit, an Alco was 0 or 1; a Baldwin was 2 or 3; an EMD was 4, 5, or 6; an F-M was 7, and a GE was 8. The number 9 wasn’t used as a second digit.
So all of B&O’s E cab units were numbered in the 1400’s, and all of their E boosters were numbered in the 2400’s. Usually (not necessarily always) the older the unit, the lower the number.
Two digit numbers, with or without alphabet suffixes, were used on E units prior to Jan. 1, 1957.
On that date, all remaining steam locomotives were renumbered to three digit numbers, with Pacifics being in the 100 series; Consolidations 200 series; Q-3 Mikados 300 series; Q-4 Mikados 400 series; Santa Fe’s 500 series; 2-8-8-4’s 650 series; Mountains 700 series; L-1, L-2, and L-4 0-8-0 switchers 800 series; and L-3 (B&OCT) 0-8-0’s 900 series. Some steam remained active during 1957, but the B&O’s official last steam run was in the Spring of 1958.
Tom
[quote user=“gmpullman”]
You’re welcome for the Welcome, Graymatter!
Your grandfather must have worked with many more engines than the 2409. Was there something special that your grandfather was involved with regarding that particular engine? Just curious.
Are you planning to use a Life-Like HO E6B? Or are you aiming for something else.
Regards, Ed
This has becomevspecail because I never met my grandfather and I am just now hearing about him working for the B&O as an Engineer. I have his B&O Engineers Time Book for 1964 and he went from (place) 458 which I beleive is Connellsville, PA. He Went to (place) 511 possibly Cumberland. Probably W Virginia for coal? Think he stayed over nite and drove back to Connellsvile…?
He used #3404 everyday. An EMD GP7. (have movie footage)
He also used with the #3404:
#2409
#1442
#1427
I asked my Mother about him and the trains he used.
“I don’t know…but he got mad when they took away his steam locomotive.”
I asked what kind or what did the trian look like.
“I don’t know but it was big. During the war we slip on some ice and fell off the top and broke his leg.”
Girls…not a great source of info when it comes to trains.<
Thanks for sharing those memories! That’s what makes model railroading fun, being able to recreate something from the past that has personal memories.
Here is what the Life-Like Proto 2000 E6 A&B set look like. They have been out of production for at least ten years but you may find some on the used market.
Regards, Ed
That is a great picture of the GP7. That is right out of the 8mm movie I have of him boarding the #3404. The 8mm movie shows steam rising from the GP7. You can imagine how confused I was at first. What is the manufacture of the GP7 in the picture? Did you add details to it?
Life-Like Proto 2000 E6b, is that the best E6B on the market?
I’ve been following this thread with interest. The line between Connellsville, PA and Cumberland, MD was B&O’s east-west Washington to Chicago mainline (now the CSX mainline). Your comments don’t say specifically what types of trains your grandfather operated, but in the days after Jan. 1, 1957, these numbers were all assigned to passenger diesels, as we have discussed. The 2409 was a B unit, and might have operated independently in the engine terminal, but it would have been a secondary booster on any mainline train, operating with at least one other unit with a standard cab.
If your grandfather operated pasenger trains on that line and ran GP7 3404 on a regular basis, it would be surprising because the standard road power for mainline passenger units on that line was the E unit. On the B&O, that meant E6A, E6B, E7A, E8A, E8AM, E8BM, or E9A’s in consists of two to four units.
1427 was an E7A built in 1945
1442 was an E8AM rebuilt from an EA in 1953
2409 was an E6B built in 1940
3404 was a passenger GP7 built in 1953
Passenger GP’s such as 3404 were not commonly used on B&O’s east-west mainline passenger trains, although they were sometimes pressed into service to substitute for a failed E unit. They were mostly used on commuter trains in the Washington-Baltimore pool, or on Pittsburgh commuter trains. I wonder whether your grandfather ever operated any of the Pittsburgh commuter trains. The Cincinnatian (Detroit-Cincinnati) was known to operate with them, and the Akron-Cleveland connection for numbers 17-18 used one for a while, but those operations were far from the Connellsville area. In the Connellsville area, the Washingtonian may have used them at some time. I wonder whether he ran the GP7 in freight service after train reductions had made it surplus for passenger service.
This is all interesting stuff. The more information you can provide, the more help we can provide. If you know specific date
The picture is Thomas A Collins 1964 B&O Engineers Time Book.
It shows #3404 going from PLACE to PLACE.
I was told he NEVER pulled passengers. ONLY frieght.
I don’t have any info on PLACE 511 or 458.
Wrong! I was misinformed. The movie footage shows A B&O GP7 pulling two maybe more passenger cars.
Railroaders used the mile markers just as often as the place name. My B&O employee timetables are boxed-up at the moment, but looking at a passenger timetable I see that… and I’m just taking a stab in the dark here,
For instance, here’s an example from a UTU page:
http://local-0340.utu.org/UTU_Web/Default.aspx?PageID=2972
511 is Kenova, WV on the C&O Cincinnati main line.
459 is Barberton, OH on the B&O Chicago main line.
The freight crews may have used mileage from different locations, such as a crew change point rather than a passenger station. I’ll have to dig out some of my employee timetables. In addition stations had a (usually) two letter telegraph code.
I can not access the photo since I do not have a facebook account.
My GP7 is also a Life-Like Proto 2000 and other than the guy with the grip and some slight weathering, it is right out of the box.
Here’s a Nice shot of the 3404: Apparently on a work train but the engine still has it’s steam heat connector.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo3404.jpg
And the 743 apparently switching freight:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo743abr.jpg
Very interesting. Thank you for the input, Tom!
Regards, Ed
Tom
That is some great info. Thanks for your time.
I am a little confused now. It would make sense that my grandfather was drivng a commuter train. Why would a frieght train need to leave on the minute and return on the mark?
In the January 1964 movie footage he leaves the yard (Connellsville?) and passes some PRR green F type maybe an A-B-A. Next are some orange passenger cars.
I will dig out the film and try and see what he is pulling. Most the shots are facing forward.
Going from the Time Book, most days he only enters the #3404.
I hope the link works for anyone wanting to see the Time Book pictures.
I threw this togehter and I am not sure if the photos link up.
Next I will get my son to put the movie into a format for YouTube.
I will edit out my baby pictures. Your welcome in advance!
Wrong! The Type F locomorives are B&O.
The ‘Orange’ B&O passenger cars are a darker color…its hard to say what color.
Okay The ‘place’ could be a mile marker. I assumed the yard had a number. Thanks for the info.
FWIW, 55-60 years ago I regularly saw passenger GP7s pulling short trains up from Washington through Brunswick towards Harpers Ferry and beyond. I don;t recall which trains or how far they went. Beyond Brunswick anyway. Don’t know if they went as far as Connelsville.
If those were passenger trains, they probably only went as far west as Martinsburg, WV.
Tom