Anyone have any comments or experience with the well advertised CN U2g 4-8-4 by True Line Trains with a suggested retail price of $1199?
HZ
Nope! You could buy my entire roster and all of my rolling stock for about 1/2 that much! [(-D]
-George
I had a look at one at the LHS for $1040 CDN I was considering one via Ebay but decided I didn’t want play/pay at that level. Very nice detail,can’t say anything about the running quality or sound as the shop was reluctant to unpack one for a test run. They apparently sold one on the first day they put 3 of them in the display case.
Best regards
Andrew
Guys…these locos are plastic. Would you spend 1200 bucks for plastic? Personally, I would expect brass for that price.
David B
Hello David B,
Yes I know it’s plastic and I wonder if it will keep it’s value as well as brass plus what kind of luck are you going to have getting parts for it if you actually run it. I decided to wait and see if I come across a brass locomotive with a slightly more reasonable price (reasonable being a relative term when discussing brass).
Andrew
If you actually do buy this engine, let me know…I’ll sell you a bridge to go with it.
For that price I’d also expect a band to go along with the brass.
Keep its value like brass? What value? While brass may not devaluate as fast as “plastic” and “other” types of model trains, I see no sign the brass even keeps up with inflation over the long term.
Model trains are like used cars, once its off the lot, its value is gone. I would strongly caution anyone not to think their model train “collection” is an investment.
As for the piece in question, even if I modeled that railroad, it is way past my cost/need/want ratio to ever show up on my layout, but than again so is most brass.
When I get done modifying and painting them for my railroad, adding some light weathering, running them, brass or not, I doubt too many people would want them - that’s OK, their not an investment, they are MY toys.
Sheldon
After the initial batch of the loco was released, there were a lot of gripes on the Canmodeltrains Yahoo Groupe. One of the firm’s owners replied to some of their gripes, which to many did seem to be minor. But if you’re paying over $1K for a model it should be right, as many expressed. The firm even went over the remaining models on hand and did some adjustments before releasing them. The owner also said he was heading off to their factory in China to personally see that the remaining models are tested and made right before shipping any more.
This was Trueline Trains first steam engine, and it may have been a bit too much to assume they would get everything perfect the first time. They offered to replace the tenders to buyers for some minor problem. Some buyers were supportive, but the owner reported some messages he received were downright hostile. And this is supposed to be a hobby!
I imagine things will sort themselves out eventually. Whether the problems and gripes with this loco will prevent them from offering more in the future is anyone’s guess. Doesn’t mean anythng to me, as I have no interest nor would I spend that kind of money on a model.
I looks as though TLT tried to run before they could walk…and guess what happened…flat on their face.
David B
I have a comment about the model but will not be getting it. If it had been in the $600 range, I would be interested in it. Compare it in price to the recent release of the Sunset Z6, which I did purchase, and the True Line CN model is just overpriced. I realize the Z6 is a much bigger model and is brass, but it has value compared to the general brass market. When you compare the U2g, it is double to triple the price of any plastic 4-8-4 available that I know of. There might be exceptions, but the bottom line is why would I spend to much for this model that is also available in used brass.
CZ
Folks,
I started this thread because I had acquired one these U2g’s on eBay for about 1/2 price. Knowing the MSRP, I assumed that it was at least die cast or similar to the BLI CN Hudson which was mostly brass and with DCC electronics. Immediately upon opening the beautiful presentation box and saw #31 of 1000, I knew that if this model was plastic and indeed it certainly looked plastic…there was a serious mistake with the importer/producer’s thinking. Brass models are hand formed and can be produced in small runs. A plastic model of this magnitude requires production molds and tooling which can cost upwards of $75,000 to $100,000.
A run of 1000 can no way be profitable as it would have to be retailed in the above $1000 category just to break even. Very few are willing to shell out that much for a plastic model when firms like BLI, Life Like, Bachmann and others are doing similar work for one quarter of the price…but in much larger runs! Value?? I believe that anything of truly good quality will hold value. This model is magnificent in appearance. I have had both Toby and Samhongsa brass U2gs. and in all fairness if it is detail that is important, this model reigns superior. Runability…OK, but in the same class as a Rivarossi model. Smoke units can not be discussed in the same sentence with MTH. I plan on keeping it and with the help of Jan Willard*, easily bring it up to great performing standards.
As far as True Line Trains, like any other model railroad manufacturer, I take off my hat and simply say…Thanks!
*Jan Willard lives in Mt Airy, MD and is in my opinion the best all around model railroad repair person I have met in my 6 decades of playing with trains. I’m lucky to be only 30 miles from Willard.
HZ
Howard
Interesting that it does have such good detail and holds it own to the older brass. The pictures that I have seen do show good detail and I am happy to know that some are being discounted big time. The running qualities do not seem so great, but they are probably using an unknown builder in China.
Show us some pictures of the U2g model if you have time.
Thanks
CZ
My LHS ordered several of these locos but were very disappointed in them when they arrived. I did not see them, but the owner reported very poor assembly, with parts loose or crooked, or missing entirely. On some details, the glue holding them in place was visible. On top of all that, the mechanism is reportedly from Bachmann. They returned the entire order, as they felt them to be un-saleable. His margin was supposedly very narrow, as he felt the original MSRP to be too high, making it unlikely that anyone would buy them at the suggested price, and they had been brought in mainly as a courtesy to their large customer base, many of whom were interested.
A good friend has one of these locos pre-ordered, due, I think, at the end of this month. I’ll judge then for myself as to the quality - there is very little that cannot be repaired, although at the $899.00 price, it shouldn’t be required.
If you want this particular locomotive and have the money to afford it, the “value” comes into play only if the product is below the standards promised. In the example cited, this was the case. For my friend, if his is as nice as originally promised, he’ll be happy. If it’s less than promised, but I can bring it up to his expectations, he’ll still be happy, although perhaps not so eager next time. [;)]
I expected some teething problems with this loco (it was a grand undertaking for their first effort), but I hope that they can make it right, as the promise of future offerings of “locomotives unlikely to be otherwise offered by anybody” hinges on the success of this one. It will be unfortunate if TLT loses their shirts on this.
Wayne
I have some swamp land you could use the bridge on!
Why would a plastic engine cost that much and why has MTH not sued them yet?
Ken
I hope you are being a little rhetorical here. The tooling costs for this locomotive are more than 6 figures, probably closer to 1/2 million. Since the market for the model is extremely limited, the importer chose to have 1,000 made - quite a risk IMHO. So the tooling costs alone are somewhere in the area of $100 to $500 per model, more likely towards the higher end of the range.
If you don’t make models that will sell large runs in plastic, the tooling costs per unit is very high. Blackstone is dealing with the HOn3 market, where you can’t sell large runs of plastic, either. The story I heard is that the original run of K-27s was 1500 pieces. They did well enough to re-run, but inflation has been rampant in China, too. The next run is going to cost more, not less - as is the C-19 coming out in less than a year. The plastic RTR cars that started out at less than $40 are now up to $50+. FWIW, Blackstone also uses Kader (Bachmann’s Chinese manufacturer and owner) to make their locomotives.
I think that when the current contracts for Chinese model locomotive production run out, you are going to see some serious price increases across the board. I’m afraid Chinese die-cast/plastic is doomed to the same price and production size spiral that Japanese and Korean brass went through. And the present abundance of new tooling will decrease significantly. You won’t be seeing more than one or two new locomotives/year/importer, and some of those importers will drop back to just re-running existing models with a few token changes, or drop out altogether - just like the 1980s when brass prices went through the roof.
I was initially surprised at the decision of plastic over brass, but perhaps Blackstone’s unpredicted success in HOn3 spurred True Line.
I purchased my model about 3 months ago. I don’t have a model layout any more; however I must say that this model is by far the most detailed locomotive I have ever seen.
Sure…it is largely plastic with a metal core but this plastic is very strong and when handled properly, it is very durable.
When you consider the electronic special effects and a hi low beam headlight, sound obtained from a cnr northern and smoke effects to name but a few of it’s features…and I think a fair price…it is a very good buy.
Lastly but not least; I have found TLT support to be tops.
There are very few of these engines available. this is not a plug for TLT…just an observation.
saabguy
Wow! This thread is almost 18 months old! Still my major point is that I will always take off my hat and say “Thanks” to any model railroad manufacturer. This was TLT’S first attempt with a steam model. I’m for giving them a chance. I don’t think the molds cost upwards of $500,000. $75-$100,000 would seem more resonable. No business man would spend a half a million for $100,000 of product unless he is into politics.
HZ
Howard
As you probably know, Sunset is bringing in a brass Selkirk with sound for about the same price as the CN 4-8-4 and I agree, the tooling could not have cost $500,000 for the True Line CN 4-8-4. It looks nice but seems too high in price to be purchased by most model railroader I know. I will be getting the Selkirk for about the same price as the Sunset NP Z6 was a year or so ago. Both seem like bargains compared to the CN 4-8-4, but if someone wants the CN model, they must pay the price.
It seems to me that lately that the O scale brass Sunset models are very reasonable in price compared to their HO models. Could it be that they sell a lot more O scale models?? I also realize they are not super detailed but do look nice in general.
And to add to the thought process, how can BLI continue to import Brass/ Hybrid models at half the price?
CZ
In China you can cut tools cheaply. The cost depends on several factors, one of which is the material it is made from. If you only want a 1000 units, you can make a tool for that purpose quite cheaply.
Cheap labour and materials make a big difference.
How can Rapido tool an entire passenger train, with locomotives, and sell it for $1500 each in a limited run, if the tools cost $500k each?
Athearn stopped selling kits because the tooling to make them cost a lot more than simple tools needed to make tens of the same part that they will assemble before shipping.