Tuning and Operating the BLI California Zephyr

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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The third group of BLI’s new California Zephyr cars has arrived. I eagerly put them into service on my layout now that Ihave enough cars for a full trainset.

For motive power, I have a four unit set of Genesis F-3s, although one of mine is a dummy B-unit shell mounted on a RTR F-unit chassis. The three powered Atheran units provide more than enough power for my 10 car CZ set.

My layout has a 28" minimum radius and about a 3% ruling grade. I’ve been running a shorter, 6 car CZ set with the cars I bought from the first two groups of cars to arrive with no problems, but filling out the consist immediately brought several issues to the fore. My track is generally in excellent condition. I can run freight trains all night ling with nary a derailment, but such was not the case with my first attempts to run a full consist CZ. Obviously, a train of long passenger cars will tend to point out any minor issues with the track, but I can run 86’ hi-cubes and 75’+ auto racks on it with no problem. But further investigation showed the issues mostly don’t seem to be track problems.

First, the trucks on the latest group of CZ cars seem to have a bit more flash on the bolster pin. This split pin is cast integral to the truck and attaches it by snapping into a hole in the underframe of the car. Most of the trucks on my group of cars from the third batch had excess flash on the pin. This is easily remedied by simply scraping it off with a kinfe blade. There are four flassh lines that runn vertically on the pin. Smooth the flash lines off and reassemble, checking to mkae sure they pivot freely.

However, the car must be disassembled in order to get access to the truck. After cleaning up this flash, the truck is much more free to pivot. This only seems to be a factor with this third group of cars, so perhaps the mold for the trucks is getting worn or something.

The next thing I discovered are the many instances of wheels gauged too narrowly when checked with the NMRA gau

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Thanks Mike, your review is really good and helpful. I appreciate that you want to share your experience with us. [bow]

At the same time I’m worried about the problems. I think we deserve top quality for the money these cars cost.

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One thing that struck me while examining the BLI CZ dome-observation at the hobby shop- the lip on the coupler box cover (real Kadees- hooray!) on the rear of the car interferes with the coupler box mounting level, and appears to force the front of the coupler box down and prevent the coupler from riding at the correct height.

I suspect that there won’t be too many who actually use that coupler, but it struck me as a little odd given all of the other details BLI attended to. At least that’s an easy thing to fix if you need to use the coupler!

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Great review Mike… I just got all my cars last week too but haven’t had a chance for a full run yet…I definitly will check for those problems.
Thanks Again for the info…and I think it is a service the Mags should offer. A “Follow-up” review of a product!! I suspect maybe it’s a “toes” issue but it would be nice if they re-reviewed an item after it has been out in service for a while and some of the bugs are showing.

Jim Spice
Beach Park ,IL

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Mike thanks for the post! I had many of the same issues and have had them in storage for three years now because of just how poorly these cars track in full consist length. On my home layout can go around maybe once at incredibly slow speeds to allows trucks to track, no problems with all other cars. Note I also have the UP City Series with a 16 car consist and I can run all day with NO issues at home or at the club, same with Walthers Hiawatha set running a 12 cars!

Coupler pockets are another poor design on these cars. I understand With they attempted to do but in function they simply don’t perform. I may take these apart as well, as after negotiating my curves on my layout the couplers do NOT recenter after leaving the curve. The coupler pockets stay off to the side in which they moved to negotiate the curves. So far with my limited use and not getting to break my cars in the only way to recenter and bring cars back to close coupling distance is to stop the consist and actually backup and remove tension from coupler pockets. BLI was a little to aggressive on their multi swing coupler box design.

I did do some minor tinkering when I first purchased and one that did help two of my cars was to remove the wiper bar,similar to Kato SD40, and replace with ultra fine flexible wiring. This allowed much better truck movement as it could rock from side to side without the stiff spring and more freely front to back with wires instead of bus bar spring contact. Honestly I simply hated having to rebuild every car out f the box but I guess this is what you will have to do unless you have larger than 30" radius curves and billiard smooth table and track work.

Once again I will take the time and do some more tweaking to see if they can be improved to operational reliability. These cars are beautiful and have a great presence on the layout and for shows and their poor operation is disgusting for

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Mike,

Thanks so much for posting this info you have experienced, I have the full sets as well but haven’t set them to use as yet but it will be nice to have your information handy should any problems arise, it will give a direction to the diagnosis of any problems.

Mark

RMR

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Mike:

I have the first run of the CZ set–all 10 cars–and what you’re describing on the latest run was also a problem with me for the full train–mainly the trucks. After some adjustments, the ful train now runs quite well (I have 34" minimum radius and 2% interrupted grades), but even on the first run of these cars, there was some adjusting to do.

So it seems as if BLI didn’t address the truck problem between runs of these cars. However, the time spent tinkering was well worth it–it’s one incredibly handsome train.

Tom

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I have ten of the first production, and also had to spend time on them. I still have one car that derails on occasion (35" min radius). I think its floor was not installed right on one corner, but got off onto other things before fixing it.

Hal

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At the risk of being annoying…my apologies But…

GUYS, PLEASE post some photos of those gorgeous cars! [<:o)]

Include photos of the areas highlighted in your posts. - Thanks

OK, now I’ll go duck and cover. [:P]

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An update. Started having derailment issues with one of my mid-train CZ cars. It turns out that one of the two prongs that form the kingpin on the truck had broken at the bottom where it joins the rest of the top part of the truck frame. This caused the truck to pivot upwards on the inside end of it, pretty much due to the way the truck is balanced.

A call to BLI promptly brought a new pair of trucks (I found another truck with the same problem while checking the fleet over) at very reasonable cost. I probably cracked these in the first couple of sets of cars I adjusted the gauge on, before I learned to be just a little gentler.

Thought I’d mention it, as it’s the kind of hard to diagnose problem that shows up depending on your line’s maintenance practices…[:$]

Otherwise, these cars are running well. I’m very happy about my investment in them and BLI’s service/support. Antonio, I may even try to get some pics up.[:-*]

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All 10 cars … the original 1949 six train sets supplied actually had 11 cars in them including:

  • 1 baggage
  • 3 dome-coaches (middle had a conductors office at one end)
  • 1 dome-lounge
  • 1 diner
  • 2 10-6 sleepers
  • 1 16 section sleeper
  • 1 10-6 trans-continental sleeper
  • 1 Dome-observation

http://calzephyr.railfan.net/

In 1951 six 5-6 sleepers were added to the train and the consist then had 12 cars until the late 1950’s when the 16 open section sleepers were dropped to low patronage so the train was back to 11 cars. Starting in 1963 the 16 section sleepers were converted to 48 seat coaches and based on demand were placed ahead of the dome-coaches near the front of the train. Those trains could be 12 cars long also, but the length of the CZ was fairly constant until around 1966 or 67 when the train began adding or deleting cars seasonally. In winters the train often had fewer coaches and sleepers and was sometimes as short as 8 or 8 cars. Conversely in summer the train could be at least 12 cars long.

I too have a set of the CZ cars but no place to run them right now. I originally only purchased the original 7 D&RGW RGZ cars for a Rio Grande Zephyr, but later purchased an addition 8 cars of mostly mixed CB&Q, WP names so I can assemble a fairly prototypical 12 car train evenly distrubuted between the 3 owners (15 BLI CZ cars total). I still need to hunt down the Silver Colt and Silver Pine D&RGW owned cars issued in the last run but sold out. Current going prices are insane so I’ll just wait out the scalpers - don’t need them that bad.

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Antonio,

Finally, just for you, a few pics…at least until the wife says it’s time to go have a few beers.[:)]

Here’s a view of my Houston-Portland Zephyr in Durango. Long story about that, but passnger traffic is up on my Four Corners Division of the D&RGW

Here’s the HP Zephyr’s motive power, 5671, poised at the refinery just west of the station in Durango.

A little higher angle shot shows the RGS freight has arrived as the HPZ is in town.

RGS Goose 5 is ready to leave with the morning mail from the PO, as the HPZ doesn’t carry an RPO. The RPO is run on the local La Sal Flyer, which delivered mail from Salt Lake City around dawn. You can also see 345, the Dunrago switcher, tied onto a pair of three-way coupler cars used on the dual gauge track to intermix SG and NG rolling stock, pulled by a loco of either gauge.

The Silver Sky brings up the rear of the HPZ as it makes its brief stop in Durango to pick up tourists visting Mesa Verde National Park. The HPZ is composed of rolling stock downgraded from the recently updated and more famous California Zephyr, a great train the American public can’t get enough of.

[URL=http:/

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Here are three shots from further down the line…

The HPZ, concluded by the amenities of the Silver Sky, passes Rio Grande Junction, where the RGS departs from the dual gauge traffic to struggle north to Dolores and beyond.

Here the HPZ passes through Hesperus, Colorado. It’s a small coal mining town that is the end of the third rail and narros gauge operations. Coal mined at Hesperus provides considerable traffic for the narrowgauge. There is also a grocery distributor, a farm coop & elevator, a stockyard, and a lumber yard that depend on the railroad for fast. economical service.

As the HPZ glides through the last of the dual-gauge switches at Hesperus and onward toward Dove Creek, Colorado and Utah, we bid a fond farewell to the ever-scenic Four Corners Division until we next meet…

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Beautiful pictures!

That almost looks like a Rio Grande Zephyr with the dome-coach ahead of the dome-observation and an ABB set pulling, except the baggage car sould be substituted with a Pullman Standard combine painted grand gold above the corregations! I can’t tell if those are sleepers near the front of the train or 48 seat flat top coaches.

Do you have an F9ABBA set with steam generator equipped B units to pull it? Or an F3ABBA set, ditto? Athearn Genesis F7A #5764 is a perfect diesel to head up the CZ in it’s final years of operation!

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Jim,

Yep, I have the F9s, just got tired of running them and, well, they don’t have sound[:)]

The P2K Fs stole my heart with their sound. It’s QSI, but OK by me. I think the new P2K F units are Tsunamis? But they’re not in the budget right now. Things have been rather Blackstone-oriented in the purchasing department lately.[8-|]

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Mike,

I only wish I could run mine! Gorgeous! I have the P2K F7ABBA set from that run also, and one of the AB sets has the QSI sound option. The sound snobs complain it sounds like an underwater submarine and the only thing worth having is the Tsunami. All of my Genesis F units are non/sound but the only sound you could get in those was the MRC, which I’ve heard was terrible. Maybe some day I’ll get a Tsunami and see what all the fuss is about. I didn’t know Walthers switched over to Tsunami. Certainly Athearn Genesis F units have shipped with Tsunami starting in about 2009.

If you haven’t gotten the “moderized” Genesis F7A #5764, I’d suggest you get that one. I believe it was among the first Gensis to come with Tsunami sound and that engine was assigned to the CZ very often during it’s last 4 years in the last 60’s. Money was tight so I got the non-sound version of #5764. I wish Athearn would have offered #5761 as that one usually was paired with the former in an F7A/F9B/F9B/F7A set #5761, 5762, 5763, 5764 set. The two B unts were the surviving F9B’s that ran on the RGZ also. The other two F9B units #5772 and 5773 were wrecked between 1965 and 1967. One of them was mixed in with F3ABBA set #5521-24 when it left the rails under a tracks undermined by a rain storm.

BTW, those passengers might get cold with no steam generator! Might have to model the PB steam generator to put into the power consist!

I don’t have any narrow guage stuff, that is a completely different world and certainly no budget for it right now. I felt stretched to pick up the Genesis Western Pacific FP7A to hand off the CZ to in SLC.

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I belong to a modular club and when we set up we are ninty feet on a side, perfect for running the long CZ or Broadway Limited consists. Two of our members do exactly that, setting up these two trains and then they are obliged to sweat bullets trying to make it around even once without a derailment or train break. I feel sorry for them because they’ve made a big investment and this is their only chance to really run them. Meanwhile, I usually put on a eight or ten car rake of old Athern Blue Box cars and they roll 'round and 'round for hours without any trouble. It’s all in the trucks. Athern’s old trucks are simple and rugged and they can adjust to just about any track conditions. Perhaps this is something for these more delux brands to ponder?

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I haven’t tried running my BLI CZ cars but I’ve read that may of the cars need the trucks tuned up by removing some flash from the bolsters and gauging the wheels. Gauging wheels is pretty standards stuff - I’ve had to do that to most of my Athearn and MDC kits I’ve built, and the truck bolsters can be cleaned up. After doing those thing there isn’t any reason why these cars should run as good as the foobie Athearn passenger cars.

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JimV,

Re CZ running quality, all I can say about it has already been said above. You may want to send a link to it if you think it’d be helpful to them. Most of the trucks are fine, but the wheelsets will get every time if they’re not adjusted. Fingers will be sore[:(!]

But it’s worth it for the improved running qualities.

I wish I could stretch the legs on my Houston-Portland Zephyr, but there’s only so much room in the basement. There is a small amount of straight track, mostly in the hidden backside of the dogbone against the wall. The rest is like the Rio Grande itself, curving and on a grade, as it’s a sort of no-lix, deck and a half. Min radius on the main is 28". About half is hidden trackage, although it’s all accessible to varying degrees. I simply can’t put up with regular derailments. Things get fixed or go to the junkyard if not fixable as far as running quality. And I now have the confidence to go fast – relatively – if visitors really want, with the adjustments I’ve made.

Backing up on grade is a different matter[:'(]

But the CZ, RGZ, HPZ whatever would rarely do that and the physics are different. I’m not going to hold that against BLI on my layout. It’s a rugged piece of mountain railroading[swg]

BTW, if you do need a few new trucks, a pair was $15 shipped to my door from BLI.

Jim5761,

I went with all sound in the four P2K units I bought. This gives me enough sound to run most or all SG covered wagon-led freights, plus the HPZ, with sound. I do like having multiple engine sound lashups, as there is a difference from just one unit sounding. More someday, especially if I can squeeze a TSU-750 into a Westside C-25, my current workbench project. If I can do steam Tsunamis, diesels will be a cinch. It’s a lot cheaper to install at this point, if you have a good fleet to work through. I converted to DCC 4 years ago, so have a good base to build on in adding sound.

I do have the 5764, except it’s on a local freig

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Mike,

Just go to Athearns site and check under Genesis F7’s and then click on D&RGW. That will pull up most if not all of the Genesis F7’s in D&RGW. It definitely lists a sound version of the #5764 F7A, but whether or not it is MRC or Tsunami isn’t clear.

I did look up Athearn’s announcement of the Tsunami sound units and that was April 29, 2009, The single stripe D&RGW F7’s were announced in January of 2008 it looks like those might have been a little before the Tsunami was included. Darn.

BTW, Mike, I’m assuming you have the Genesis F9ABB’s 5771, 5762, 5763, and F9AB 5774, 5773. Shame the other F9A was wrecked in late 1967! Aside from those and the Proto 2000 F7s’, what other F units are you running? The Genesis single stripe F3’s are very nice. I did get the #5541,5542, 5543, 5544 ABBA set and the F9m (F3 rebuid) #5531. Do you run any Stewarts?