I have a DCC powered layout and I’m installing a turnout for a branchline that I will control using a tortise machine and want to be able to control the turnout from the main control panel as well as at the turnout spot itself. This spot is located on the other side of a view block from my control panel and I envision the need to throw the switch from both locations on occasions. I know there is the DCC control option of turnouts but I am asking if there is a way to wire two toggles to do that job. I am not sure of the correct terminology but I am familiar with the basics of wiring as I have wired a dozen or so tortise controls using DPDT switches on my main control panel.
Yes, you can “daisy chain” multiple DPDT toggles and control the Tortoise from any of them. However, they will work like “3-way” light switches in your home. The points will move when any of the toggles is flipped. The unfortunate result of this is that you can no longer tell the commanded position of the turnout simply by looking at the position of the toggle. If you’re going to do this, particularly if you won’t have a direct view of the turnout from each toggle, it’s probably a good idea to add LEDs at each toggle to let you know which way the points are set.
The LEDs can be added in series with the Tortoise motor leads, and you can add two or three in series with it as needed. This is the simplest way and it works well. No dropping resistors are needed in this application.
I tried this once on an older layout. For some operations I wanted to control the terminal from the tower, for others I wanted to get down there in the yard and work them locally. But of course my toggles HAD TO TELL THE TALE of which way the switches were thrown.
What I ended up doing was to install a switch at the tower location which would enable the local controls and disable the tower controls. In the tower, a blue light displayed when the system was on local control and the route lamps would display when it was under the control of the tower.
I forgot exactly how I did this, but that is how I solved this problem.
We have this situation when using Tortoise or similar machines with our HOn3 Free-mo modules, as do our standard gauge cousins. Free-mo requires controls on both sides of the modules. And it is needed because the modules are reversible, and in setups we typically operate from both sides simultaneously.
We do “daisy chain” the toggles as Mister Beasley outlined. We turn the toggles (recessed into the fascia on the module side) so the handle moves horizontally, and not vertically. Then the handle position does not convey information about which way the points are set. We simply look at the turnout - LEDs on the fascia don’t look right for HOn3.
A little more expensive and complicated system would be to use a latching relay or electronic equivalent. The toggles (or push buttons) would be momentary, and wired in parallel to control the latch appropriately from either side. The momentary toggle or push buttons would indicate which way the turnout is thrown. This solution probably results in extra turnout throws to “make sure” but is easier to use and understand.
A more prototypical solution - which a few guys are working on, and has been used by others before - is to attach working switch stands to the turnout throw. The switch stand moves when the turnout
Like Fred suggests, a simple relay circuit can do this with push buttons.
Actually it does not require a latching relay, simple 4PDT relays can be wired latch themselves and can easily be used to control complete/complex turnout routes, not just one turnout. And it can be done from as many locations as you wish.
And features like the Lion suggested, giving a master panel “control” of remote locations can also be done.
The same circuitry has been used to control motor starters in factories for over 100 years now.
Send me a PM if you would like the circuit.
Or, you can by DPDT latching push buttons for the daisy chain type wiring, and use LED’s to indicate postion.
May I throw out another option? Use a turnout decoder such as an NCE Switch-It. This particular decoder has a push button connection option. If the instructions are to be believed, you only need a single momentary contact push button at each control panel to toggle the turnout back and forth. The two push buttons are wired in parallel, so there is no need to make a connection between the two panels. And if you ever decide that you want to operate that turnout from the handset, you can do that also. Information is here: http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/switch_it_c.pdf
The do work that way, just a momentary pushbutton. There are other stationary decoders that also allow for pushbutton local controls, and nothign says you can’t wire multiple buttons in parallel to have more than one control location. The Switch-Its tend to run somewhat lower voltage to the Tortoises, so adding sries LEDs may slow them down too much, so one fo the contact sets might have to be used to provide indicators at each operating position, sinc epushbuttons can;t themselves indicate which way the turnotu is lined. LEDs on fascia diagram are almost a must, unless the turnotu in question is ery visible to someoen at either location, in which case you could do the old LED disguised as a dwarf signal trick and put the indication trackside instead of on a panel.
There are a number of stationary decoders that will work with multiple parrallel monentary buttons, but unless DCC control is needed/wanted, a couple of relays and my ciricuit will be much less expensive.
Suitable surplus relays can be had for two or three dollars. Two 12V 4PDT relays will do a number of different multi location and/or multi turnout route controls.
If you use lighted pushbuttons like I do, yo can even light up the selected route on a mini track diagram with very little extra work or expense.
thank you all for your responses. I need to think how this branchline will be operated in time as I am just finishing the benchwork on this extension. I am going to wire up a practice scenario with two toggles and see how it works.
I run two wires from a DC power source to the two terminals on one end of the first DPDT. Two wires from the center terminals of the first DPDT run to the two terminals on one end of the second DPDT. A set of wires run from the center terminals of the second DPDT to the two power leads on the Tortoise.
I wire in a bi-polar LED to each DPDT to indicate the direction of the turnout.
Is there a wiring diagram for this option? I have wired a turnout like this but I seem to have an issue of it not working. I have double checked the wiring but can’t seem to find the issue. Any thoughts or solutions?
No, for the LED’s to show the correct position of the switch motor they must be between the last switch in the chain and ther switch motor. This means redundant wires back to the first location, just like Ed has it drawn.
I prefer pushbuttons so that you don’t have toggles that are in different positions relative to the switch position depending on which locaton was thrown last.
And if you are wiling to trust the relays to indicate position, you can wire the LED’s as shown in this diagram and run fewer wires to all locations.
Using lighted mini pushbuttons allows them to be right in the track diagram to indicate the route.
That’s why I wired it the way I did. It works. I just used the turnouts on a passing siding tonight. There’s no guessing which way the points are thrown.
Plus I have a thousand feet of four conductor 22 ga. wire, why not use it.
