Jeff Brand. They are all hand spiked. DC or DCC, doesn’t matter, if it’s gonna short, it’s gonna short. You have to take the same precautions with both.
My goodness. Even if one goes the wrong way over a track switch without immediately shorting because of a dead frog, you are going to derail and possibly cause a short anyway. Derail or short, one is in trouble. Give me a live frog and not a stalled train! And don’t engineers pay any attention to their trains? Sloppy is inconvenient when pretending, and can be deadly in the real world.
Mark
True, Mark … although I find the short upon derailing with dead frog turnouts thrown against you is fairly infrequent. And on a DCC layout, I’d rather go on the ground than short out.
Also, dead frog turnouts can be installed without the need to install live frog contacts and extra wiring. I accidentally discovered (when I forgot to wire up a live frog) that dead frogs worked fine with my locos. I began deliberately “forgetting” to install the frog power routing. Turnout installation was easier and things ran fine. Dead frogs became the standard on my layout once I saw how good they worked and how they were less work to install.
At the 2004 NMRA Convention in Seattle, I ran into Gary Segal – the owner of a large, beautiful L&N layout that has been featured in MR. I asked Gary if he used live frog or dead frog turnouts on his layout?
“I started out using live frog turnouts, but after finding out that dead frogs worked fine, I moved to all dead frogs,” Gary replied. Same as my discovery!
So I now recommend people try out dead frogs first and see if they think they’ll work for them. If not, then live frog certainly works – but on a DCC layout, one easy way to correct the shorting issue is to put an 1156 auto tail light bulb into the feeder going to the frog.
It’s easy to say “people should remember to throw the dang turnout!” with live frogs to avoid a short – but tell that to all the guys who’s trains keep stalling s
Well NZ, this is my take on your question. I use Digitrax and have 40 N scale Peco Electrofrogs. I did not power route the frogs as i do not see the need. I took the springs out and run them with Tortoise machines. They are just as dependable today as when they were first installed three years ago. There has been a lot of dust and dirt with construction and i have painted the track and turnouts. As to the topic of shorts i put in a PM42 power manager to split the layout into 4 zones. I also believe that most command stations have short protection(the quarter test). I looked at Wiring for DCC.com when i installed the Electrofrog turnouts and found the site overly confusing. The information must be at least 10 years old. My shortest NW2 switchers crawl through the turnouts and i have never had a problem with trains stalling out on a turnout. Mike
Of course the frog has to be isolated, that’s the “done properly” part. But that’s true in DC or DCC. The extra shorting opportunity with the live frog is from running against the switch. Again, that’s a short, whether you are running DC or DCC. So, there’s the choice if powering the frog, if your equipment demands it, or not powering the frog, if it doesn’t. And, if you choose to power it, protecting yourself with the tail light bulbs makes a lot of sense.
I’m using FastTracks turnouts. So far I have not powered the frogs, though I have dropped feeds from many of them, in case I change my mind. I would not be shocked if I end up powering them in the yard, where the NW-2’s will play, though I’d prefer not to. It’s not built yet, so I don’t know how things will work!
I use all live frog turnouts on HO DCC, Peco and Shinohara, codes 70, 75, 83 and 100. I have no short circuits, unless I drive against a closed switch (my fault) or a derailment, extremely rare (also my fault on track laying or faulty stock).
If your track is well laid and wheels gauged correctly it doesn’t matter what track you use, except for the dead bit in insulfrogs.
Oh yes my stock uses 100% metal wheels as well.
Mike Ruby
In N scale many steam locos won’t handle a dead frog. In HO maybe most will but why restrict what you can run?
use a live frog, do it properly, have plenty of power districts, and enjoy.
If you are signalling the layout and you are an electonics buff like me, why not have a dead section of track just ahead of each facing switch to stop 'em running it? Also stops them pulling up too close and clipping the passing train.
Hi Joe thanks for your input into this and to all the other replys i have had as well seems like there is two schools of thought here which is pretty much the same reponse i got down here it appears that there is no really clear cut option either way,the track i intend to use is Peco code 100 with the matching turnouts all in HO scale, the reason i have selected code 100 is that i have a good number of older locos with a deeper wheel flange which i wish to be able to run in conjuction with some of my newer units and i really didnt want to start having to re wheel some of my older locos,it looks at this stage as insulfrog may well be my best option thanks guys for all your help it has been interesting reading some of the replys will leave the question on for a time yet so if you have a sudden brain storm please share with me your ideas cheers and regards to all Graham (nzkid50).