Ultraviolet light question

Garden Railroading
1

Yesterday I was at Pep Boy and noticed a can of Armoral. They claim the contents can be used to recondition plastic-like material and prevent UV damage.

Has anyone used this stuff before (or other stuff like it) to prevent UV damage?

I know that G stuff already is UV protected but I have some 3-rail ABS plastic stuff I wanted to use when I complete my 3-rail O garden layout.

If no one knows, I can always operate my wood and diecast equipment in the sun and wait until there’s no sun to operate the ABS stuff.

Thanks for advice.

2

David,

Your question caught my attention. Several years ago, the Classic Toy Train staff members read something on the toy train email list that Armorall actually deteriorates plastic. While I don’t know much about those claims, I can speak from personal experience. My previous car was a 1982, bought by my parents in 1990 (and still is around). Twice a year, for 7 years, I applied Armorall to the plastic inside the car (dash, arm rests, etc.) It did not deteriorate, nor did it fade or crack. I consider that quite a feat considering the hot summers and dark interior of the car.

I found this on the company web site. At the bottom it says to apply three coats for the most protection. Perhaps you have a shell or something you can test this on first?

http://www.armorall.com/prodcat/pages/protectant_2.2.html

3

Armorall is almost pure silicone, your stuff will be shiny and very slippery, but will be protected against UV rays. The problem is that it will replace the plastic’s natural oils with the silicone, so if you STOP using it, your stuff will crack and peel as it dries out. Rene had good experience because she kept applying the product on a regular basis, as per the manufacturer’s instructions.

I would reccomend against this aproach, there are other ways of protecting you stuff without turning your trains onto a silicone addiction. Occasionaly running the non-UV stuff, taking it indoors or storing it in the shade is a good option that costs nothing. Remember, it takes a while for UV damage to happen.

Automotive clear coats (available at any auto parts store) are UV protective, check the container for this info and be sure to check compatability with your current finish. Most are gloss, but can be covered by Dullcote to tone down the shine.

The last option is to repaint your equipment with UV protective paint. Draconian, but it works. Not an option for anything collectable or sentimental.

Just my [2c]

[oX)]

4

Yes Jack i think so.

Ian

5

Armorall destroys car tires if you use it and then stop, because it causes the synthetic rubber to dry out and crack unless you keep using it throughout the lifetime of the tire.

6

Thanks for advice. Looks like clear coat followed by dullcoate is the way to go. That will also be a good time to add chalks and stuff for weathering before applying the 2 liquid coats to seal it in. None of my stuff is collectible nor post-war. Just modern (but still of sentimental value!).

This UV topic I guess could also apply to plastic structures you may wi***o display in your garden. For that matter, UV from florescent bulbs also can deteriorate so this info can apply to stuff indoors as well.

Thanks for replies.

Dave Vergun

7

Artificial UV light indoors is infintesimal compared to the Mark I thermonuclear heating source that floats around in the sky everyday. When was the last time you saw a cubicle geek with a sunburn from his office lights?

Your right in that UV light will affect buildings and anything else made of plastic. Manufacturers of garden RR equipment spend a lot of money on researching plastic formulations that are UV resistant and still prove cost effective. Indoor manufactures don’t do this, it’s not important for them to do so.

Good luck and be sure to post some photos!!!

[oX)]

8

Yes, I have heard this too. My dad has told me that with newer tires today, there is already an additive in the rubber which protects against UV, and there is no need to apply anything. (He’s the manager of a tire store, so I figure he would know!)

9

If you want to talk UV try coming to Australia located right next to the hole in ozone layer over antarctica. As a result this is the qorld capital of skin cancer.

Rgds Ian

10

k, here’s the skinny.

Went to Pep Boys. Nothing. Advised me to go nextdoor to Sherwin-Williams. They were helpful at latter place and looked up in computer a producted called “Sher-Clear” which is clear glass waterborne acrylic liquid in 1 gallon container ($30).

For my experiment (and I’ll post pictures), I’m going to take a sacrificial piece of rolling stock, actually a boxcar, and coat half with Sher-Clear and the other half leave alone. The boxcar I think is red. I’ll leave it outside in the sun (south facing) for 6 months and provide you’all a report if something happens in between or at end of 6 months.

Recoat time is 2 hours. Planning on 2 coats. Says it’s UV protective. Goes on milky and dries clear. However, complete cure time is 14 days so won’t take it outside until it cures. Also, as additional experiment. Gonna coat some non-UV protected track ties and see what happens to those.

11

I’ve got a good idea.
Buy some track.
That means you actually have to buy some track.
Put it in the garden.
Do I have to explain this part?
Then this is the tricky part.
You try things.
You only ask questions if you mean to do it.
Don’t go on and on for months.
Try it
It’s fun.

but only if it’s not HO of Z in the garden.

12

Oh, troy, forgot perhaps to mention that it’s 3 rail O. I’ve heard some others who’ve done it including an article in Garden RR couple years ago featuring a Gargraves Track layout that had lasted 20 years or more.

You’re right that planning can be a drag and doing it is the FUN. However, there’s a lot for me to study up on and learn from you garden pros before I tackle this thing.

13

With 3000 plus posts,you need to tackle more and post less.

14

FJ and G- don’t call me a pro! People will be bugging me for product endorsements, mall openings, celebrity fund raisiers et al.[xx(]

Troy is right though, the absolute best way is to ask a question or two, then do it!

Good hunting!

[oX)]

15

Troy writes: “With 3000 plus posts,you need to tackle more and post less.”

Troy,

Perhaps I do, but I detect aires of condescention coming from you. I always believed that the purpose of the forum was to share ideas. Very few of those 3K+ posts were on this forum. They’re spread between Trains, CTT and MR forums.

And, who annointed you the dictator of the forum to say how many posts one should make. Perhaps you need to get a life instead of your recreational snipping. It’s guys like you (unless your a gal) who give forums a bad name and chase some good folk away.

16

As you can see, I’ve started the experiment now, out back at the grape vinyard area, where there’s lots of sun. The pickle boxcar is the unlucky candidate. In addition to painting half of the boxcar with the glossy product, I’ve cut a chunk out of the other side which I’ll keep indoors as a color match control.

Also, hanging up on the vinyard fence (the fence is so BB the beagle can’t get at the grapes) is a section of Atlas 2-rail O gauge ties. I painted glossy half of them. I don’t know if you can make it out or not. Additionally, there’s an 027 rail hanging in the fence for fun to see how long it takes to rust.

So, I’ll be monitoring the changes and report the results. I’d rather plan ahead with a good experiment than be sorry! Hopefully, this experiment will be of help to others who are thinking of venturing out to the al fresco.

17

Hi FJ&G
Butcher!! you should be shot for destroying perfectly good trains[swg]
I would have thought a good quality exterior grade flat varnish would have done the trick.
as for buildings paint them every five to ten years with a good quality exterior house paint
If you want too see how the track performs the best way is to build the line as it will be.
Your experiment will not show up all the important problems like what it does in the heat with a train on it elctrical problems ect.
Atlas claim one of their “O” tracks is suitable for out side so my sugestion is get a railway built before you are too old and decrepid to build and enjoy it.
regards John
PS none of us live forever

18

Troy and Jack are not condescending type blokes, they do actually do things, not as well i I do mind you, but you cannot experience anything unless you do something.

Talking about it after the event, is more satisfying than before…

ie. it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

Rgds Ian

19

Although it sounds like some are getting a bit uperty, their 100% right. Many times one sees the same questions which, once you start actually building your outside train the answers are rather obvious.

Forget involving hours and hours of study, experiments, ans over planning, just do it.

If you want to see what you can do with absolutely no experience in garden railways, and no one to ask, have a look at my web site www.gscalechuffchuff.com

Its far from perfect but everytime I do something I learn something new, somethings work, some not, but at least do it.

Dont get offended, but its really overkill at times. In NZ we are the closest civilised country to the large hole in the ozone layer and we have the strongest UV rays in the world. But as far as models are concerned, whats the big deal. Nothing last forever and instead of putting plastic models etc out in the sun as an experiment observe the humble plastic ice cream container. Left untouched, about 5 years in the sun… so that is how long your models will probably last for . Perhaps 10 at the outside, so plan to replace them in that time.

Just like us mortals everything deteriates with time, so stop thinking how to protect it to last for the next 100 years and get out there and do it. If your young and have 50 or so years ahead of you playing trains by all means build it like a house but how long do you expect to be able to play trains.

Once you start you will find it far more fun and challenging that studing up all the time because every day someone will have a different point of view so unless you actually do something you will never know who is right. You can always undo what you have done and start again.

If your worried about how long the plastic will last for, wait till you start worrying about keeping the track clean. Lets face it, its outside, things like to walk on it, do other things on it, leave just love laying on it, and if you plan 3 rail o scale,

20

Hi Tony
Have to agree with you havn’t run a train on my experiment for a while too busy trying to get the town built for it.
And find a suitable good quality battery powered locomotive for those days I just cannot be botherd fireing a boiler or taking out the train controler.
regards John