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Union Pacific 844 dropped from Texas Tour
somebody got on the brake valve a little too much?
THE UP STEAM PROGRAM IS SERVICED AND OPERATED BY A DEDICATED AND PROFESSIONAL CREW. IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE THIS HAPPENED. THERE MUST BE MUCH MORE TO THIS THAN WE KNOW.
WHAT A SAD DAY FOR ALL CONCERNED - THE RAILROAD AND STEAM FANS ALIKE. HOPE THIS DOES NOT CAUSE THE DISBANDING OF UP’S STEAM PROGRAM.
IN THIS DAY AND AGE THE STEAM PROGRAMS OF THE CLASS 1’S CAN ONLY BE JUSTIFIED AS GOOD PUBLIC RELATIONS. THE COSTS ARE MINISCULE BUT THE NUISANCE FACTOR HAS BEEN NOTED BY THE OPERATING FOLKS AT ALL LEVELS.
IT HAS BEEN NOTED ELSEWHERE THAT THE ARIZONA CENTENNIAL ON THE BNSF - LA TO WILLIAMS AZ- WILL PROBABLY BE THE LAST STEAM ON THEIR MAIN LINES. THEY SIMPLY WILL NOT RUN THE RISKS OF DOWNTIME AND DELAYS TO THEIR Z TRAINS. THE ONLY WAY THE RAILROADS CAN BEAT THE TRUCKS IS BY BETTER SERVICE AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THEIR INHERENT COST AND OPERATING EFFICIENCIES. WILL THE STEAM PROGRAMS GO THE WAY OF THE WORLD? LET US HOPE AND PRAY NOT.
Courtney,
I wonder about that too. Did something happen to make the engine slide along the rail? Maybe some practicing engineers would comment on this?
George
The story as I understand it is that the MU stand in the 844 suffered a malfunction, so that when the 844 was trying to stop, the diesel behind it was still fully revved and pushing it.
The diesel did not have its own crew which of course makes sense when there is MU control at the head end. What an unfortunate event. Even if they can re-turn the tires on 844 to get rid of the flat sopts I have to think this shortens the life of the tires - and putting new steel tires on steam drivers is almost a lost art.
Wheels, people, not tires. This isn’t an automobile.
What is the status of 3985?
I’m not an expert on this type of thing but won’t this require new tires?..or at least, truing up the flat spots?..either way it sounds like a major undertaking, requiring some very specialized equipment. Where do you find that type of equipment these days?
Does this mean She’s down for the rest of the year? If so, what a bummer! I was looking forward to seeing her at Railfest in North Platte this year! (dreaming aloud here) Maybe the 3985 can get finished in time to save the day. She needs an opprotunity to do that too, especially to save her sister and stablemate… if only. I really do hope they figure something out.
UP WILL NOT abandon their steam program. Too much money has been invested to up and cancel the program because of flat wheels.
The art of removing and installing or re-installing steam locomotive wheels was videotaped in a detailed way when Challenger 3985 was restored to service because Steve Lee could see that those with this type of knowledge were rapidly dying off. They have already been making purpose built tools to repair both 3985 and the 844.
The positive PR that Union Pacific has received over their steam program far out weighs the “nuisance factor” that some railroads place on these efforts. The fact that UP can run their specials pretty much over home rails through most of the country also reduces the issues of liability and insurance that most Class I’s require of private individuals sharing track with their freight trains, which ultimately pays the bills. Norfolk-Southern recently restarted their steam program after a several year hiatus because they recognize the value in public relations it brings.
Long live the UP Steam program and steam or tourist/museum programs everywhere!
Mr. Schowalter, tires is the correct term. It refers to the outer ring of the wheel, which is removable from the rest, just like a rubber car or bicycle tire can be removed from the wheel.
Mr. Schowalter, “tires” is a very apt term, as they are machined and heat-shrunk to fit the cast wheels. The 844 is equipped with a control stand to be able to operate in multiple unit (MU) operation with diesel locomotives coupled behind it. Someone said there was a malfunction that caused the diesels behind to keep pushing while the locomotive’s brakes were on. Enough sliding will cause flat spots to form very easily. I’m sure you’ve stood by trackside and heard a car in a train go pounding by. At some point, its brakes stuck, either a valve malfunction or someone left the handbrake on. If they’re bad enough (and apparently these are), the continued pounding on the rail from each revolution is extremely hard on the rail. It can cause rough spots and even cracking in the head of the rail. It can exacerbate any defect that might already be there. It’s one reason for the proliferation of defect detectors that are omnipresent on today’s railways. My understanding of steam locomotive operation is that it was prudent to operate the train brakes to stop while keeping the engine brakes bled (bailed) off. I do this on a regular basis running a 10-car commuter train with an F40, setting a light set (first service) of 6-8 pounds outside of certain stops and then powering the train in, reducing the throttle to reduce speed and then reducing the air pressure in the train line to bring it to a final stop. My understanding with steam locomotives is that overapplication of the brakes could cause the driver tires to heat up and possibly separate under extreme conditions. Removing flat spots takes a big enough wheel lathe to accomplish the job. I can imagine that flat spots on driver tires would also be detrimental to the wheel castings and possibly the bearings as well. Bearings aren’t in short supply, but the wheel castings are. There are spares on the 838, 844’s stable mate and parts engine, but the work involved would be enormous.
Mechanical malfunctions happen, even on the best made systems. Let’s be glad the 844 is heavy compared to the diesel and they were able to stop, and that no one was injured. 844 will steam again soon, she’s is in the best steam preservation hands in the country.
Steamers have steel tires around the rim of the wheels. The’re put on by hearing up the tire enough to the point where it expands, then it’s pounded into place. (at least that’s the way the showed in the old UP doc. The Last of The Giants. If I’m wrong, someone correct me please) The "tires are what touches the rails.
The replaceable rims on steam locomotive drivers are called “tires”, just as the steel rims on wagon wheels are called tires, both of witch were around before the automobile.
The driver/axle combos will have to be pulled to turn or replace the tires. This will take some time and money, how much depends on how well equiped the shop is. I don’t think it will be a problem for UP to compleat the repairs.
Mr. Schowalter, I’m sure I won’t be the only one to reply to your comment. 844 has wheels and tires. The spoked section is the wheel. There is a few inch thick separate tire that is around the wheel. The tire is heated to expand it then slid over the wheel with some persuasion. As it cools, it shrinks to a tight fit around the wheel. Steamtown’s website has an excellent example of replacing tires on CP 2317. http://www.nps.gov/stea/photosmultimedia/tire_change_07_01.htm
I thought Mr. Schowalter might have been from Wisconsin, but Illinois is close enough that it is possible that he is an advisor to Governor Walker.
David Showalter: Sorry, most likely they are tires! Drivers don’t rest on the steel wheels. Steel drivers are installed on the wheels for a running surface. This allows the RRs to repair the wheels by replacing the tires instead of the entire wheel.
Installation of the tires is a “lost art,” because it requires special equipment to heat the tire so it will slide onto the wheel. When it cools down, it grips the wheel. Most shops don’t have this appartus any more.
Where did I learn this? From TRAINS magazine of course!
Thank you Mr. Doug Smith for your informative and civil response to the subject of tires and wheels. Your explanation of how flat spots can occur on steel wheels makes total sense. I can only imagine how much noise, vibration and unseen damage could be done to the flat spotted wheel and/or rail as the engine sped down the track. Being a retired aircraft maintenance technician it is always wise to err on the side of safety and get the problem fixed before it before it becomes a disaster with a possibly fatal outcome.
Having chased the 844 across Wyoming at speed, I can only add that it is sad to see it damaged. Coming out of laramie at over 90 was very impressive and trying to keep up with it was a challenge.
It really roared over Creston junction where I finally gave up trying to follow it.
I figured I had pressed my luck too much one day to keep after it.