I have some questions reguarding Metra’s UP North Line, the first question is do any freight trains use the Kenosha sub North of Kenosha and if so how many and what type? My second question how dose Union Pacific schudle train crews on the three Metra lnes operated by Union Pacific? The reasson I ask is because I see the same conductor everyday and I would like to know if they work split shifts or are they on a regular schudle? And finally what is the track that branches off the Kenosha sub at the Lake Bluff Metra Station and connects to the Milwaukee about two miles to the west? Please let me know as soon as you can thank you.
The UP still delivers coal trains to the power plant at Oak Creek, probably one about every other day, There are also industries at Racine and Cudahy that require service–whether this is handled north from Kenosha or south from Milwaukee, I don’t know.
They’re on a regular schedule, which can often include an extended layover in Chicago. In my experience, a Metra conductor makes two round trips for a day’s pay. Of course, my experience was on the West Line, a much shorter trip than either of the other lines.
That is the Lake Subdivision; it connects with the Milwaukee Sub (not the Milwaukee Road, now CP) at what used to be Tower KO. In the early 1970s, this was a double-track line, possibly one of the shortest such subdivisions around. That would probably be the route that coal trains use most of the time between Waukegan or Oak Creek and Proviso.
Carl,
Would this by any chance be a remnant of the old North Shore Line Mundeline branch? As I recall it left the CNS&M Shore Line at Lake Bluff and ran nearly due west to Mundeline. IIRC it crossed the Milw Road at Rondout on a flyover. That would be just about at the location of the interlocking tower that controlled the Milw Road/EJ&E diamond.
Mark
No, Mark, this line has been around for a long time before the North Shore was gone–in fact, it had to have crossed the North Shore’s Skokie Valley line near Tower KO, which is a couple of miles south of where the Mundelien line crossed what’s now the Milwaukee Sub (New Line). I guess it all came together (probably on two levels) at close to the same spot in Lake Bluff, but I never recall going through there in daylight to check it out.
The Lake Subdivision has much more of a northeast-southwest orientation. (I remember having to get out and flag on it at one time–darn near walked back to Lake Bluff!)
The Lake sub crosses over the right of way of the Mundeline Branch. The Lake sub splits from the Kenosha sub just north of Lake Bluff station. The Mundeline branch went under the Kenosha sub just south of the Lake Bluff depot.
And yes, at one time tower KO controlled CNS&M movements across the Milwaukee (then the New Line) sub.
Carl,
We visit my wife’s father in Waukegan at least once a year and while there usually drive down Sheridan Rd right alongside the METRA line several times to Lake Bluff where one of her brothers live. I’ve never seen this line branching off the old CNW anywhere between North Chicago and Lake Bluff. Perhaps it takes off south of the Lake Bluff METRA station and the next time we go up north I’ll make a point to look for it.
Mark
Yes, it’s south of the Lake Bluff station, but not by much. You should be able to see the signals at the junction from the station.
Just to clarify:
The old CNS&M line crossed UNDER the Kenosha sub immediately south of the Lake Bluff depot; indeed, if one stopped his northbound suburban train short at Lake Bluff station, the rearmost coaches would be hanging on the bridge that crossed the CNS&M tracks (the right-of-way is now a road).
The interlocking for the Lake sub to divert from the Kenosha sub is NORTH of the Lake Bluff depot, and yes, you can see the signals from the depot. You can also see the Lake sub track as it parallels the Kenosha sub track for about 1/4 mile before bending west towards KO.
Union Pacific runs a “Cudahy Job” that takes care of industries on the Kenosha Sub, including bad-ordered cars from WEPX and Vulcan (quarry operation just north of Racine). UP also runs unit trains of gravel for Vulcan from their Ives quarry, but these take the Farm Sub/Kenosha Industrial Lead across Kenosha to the Milwaukee Sub at Bain; these are also likely coming to an end, as the Ives quarry is running out of rock, as well as room to expand.
Fuzzy, et.al.,
I haven’t seen or heard a rock train in quite a while (and I live about 200’ from the Farm sub). There are still a few Vulcan hoppers sitting at the transload facility south of Bain, but they haven’t moved yet this winter. The wayfreight still comes thru to service Ocean Spray and set out the cars for pickup at Bain, but that’s all I see on this line now.
What about the coal trains to Oak Creek? How many of the Oak Creek coal trains dose the Kenosha sub use per day? And the Rock trains do they still run the trains or has the quary all been used up? And finally what is the farm sub? Please let me know thank you
I’m not sure how many coalies head to OC, though I’ve been lucky to catch one almost every time I’ve been down there lately. As I said, the quarry is nearing the end of its useful life, and the trains along with it, unless Vulcan manages to buy a whole lot more real estate in the area (doubtful). As zardoz mentioned, the rock trains haven’t been running as frequently as they once did, so catching one would be a real rarity. Honestly, I don’t really know whether they will ever run again, but the equipment still in the area seems to indicate that they might – but probably in warmer temperatures.
The Farm Sub runs sorta diagonally from the (Old Line) Kenosha Sub right behind the Kenosha Metra station to the (New Line) Milwaukee Sub at Bain, just north of P-4 (Pleasant Prairie Power Plant). There are wyes at either end of the line.
Did anyone see a loaded Oak Creek train headed north; out of Waukegan early this afternoon? That thing came from somewhere out east. When I saw it this morning it had a pair of NS units and a BNSF (I wasn’t looking at numbers or models, unfortunately). We must have added one of our own units on the point; that’s now a necessity for the <gasp!> cab signals between Lake Forest and Kenosha.
As I recall from many visits to Waukegan in the 50’s and 60’s when it was the CNW there never was much freight traffic on the Kenosha Sub, mostly just commuter and through passenger trains. Perhaps there were some through freights that ran in the wee hours of the morning so I wouldn’t have seen them. I always thought that CNW through trains to Milwaukee and points north ran on the double track freight only line located on the Gurnee side of Waukegan some 5 miles or so west of the Kenosha sub. I think this was the Milwaukee Sub which ran through Bain and I seem to remember was referred to as “the new line”. Are my recollections correct?
Mark
Ah yes, one of the new railfan advantages of the expanded Oak Creek power plant: It can burn coal from anywhere! So these eastern coal trains will likely be regular visitors to the line… [:O]
What is today Union Pacific’s Milwaukee Sub was, as I recall, CNW’s New Line Sub, while the UP Kenosha Sub was the CNW Old Line Sub. The Old Line did have a few freights on it, I briefly lived about 3/4 mile from it in Racine and saw and heard them regularly. May have just been a wayfreight-type operation, I had little knowledge of the operations of 1:1 railroads at the time. One of the Proviso-Butler freights was using the Kenosha Sub last year as well.
One of the bonuses of the line was and is a ready detour route in case anything happens on the freight New Line/Milwaukee Sub! That has happened on a regular basis as well, at l
I do not recall the Kenosha sub ever refered to as the Old Line sub; if it ever was, it was before my time (early 70’s).
The Kenosha sub had freights on a regular basis before the CNW took out the double track north of Kenosha. MPRBU-MBUPR (old 289-290, Proviso-Butler), MPRGB-MGBPR (old 291-292, Proviso-Green Bay), MPRIT (old 415, Proviso-Itaska) ran that way regularly. MITPR (415’s counterpart 490) rarely ran that way due to the difficulty in running 490 on such an undulating track profile a
I’ll sit corrected then; as I mentioned before, my grasp of operations is somewhat retroactive, and probably not particularly accurate!
I worked for C&NW. I never heard the Kenosha Sub refered to as the “Old Line” subdivision either. The term “New Line” as applied to what’s now the UP Milwaukee Subdivision, wasn’t a nickname. It was actually the formal name of the subdivision on C&NW right up to the UP merger. That probably explains why the name continued to be used for over 70 years after the line was “new”.
As I recall the CNW New Line was double tracked with ABS. Is that still the case today? I also believe it was left hand running and if the signals are still in place and the circuits haven’t been changed I imagine the UP operates it that way even today. I was surprised to learn that there’s ATS on the Kenosha Sub. When was this installed by the CNW and between what stations or mile posts is it in operation?
Mark
Jim, the Kenosha Sub was in fact the Old Line Subdivision when I hired out (years and year–guess that makes three!–before you did). I think the name changed with the first System employee timetable (that’s when the “Galena” name was dropped for the line out west, too).
Automatic Train Stop was used on the Old Line Sub and beyond for as long as I was around–from Chicago all the way to Milwaukee, on the Lakeshore Sub to Green Bay, and I believe as far northwest as the Twin Cities. When passenger service disappeared, ATS followed soon thereafter, except as far as Kenosha. It is still in use on the Harvard Subdivision as well, for the Metra trains. Cab signals were only recently added to the line between Lake Bluff and Kenosha, to accommodate most UP locomotives that will use that line for coal trains, etc.
By the time I hired out (in 1971), the New Line had been single-tracked between Gurnee and Airport Junction, with Siding K (now “Kay”) and a siding at Bain (I forgot which track was lifted, but the remaining track changed sides at a highway underpass on a curve, IIRC–the old roadbed was still very visible when I caught jobs up there). Another stretch of single track was added to the south of this, possibly in the 1980s; perhaps between KO and Upton. It’s all still ABS, I’m pretty sure, but TWC is also in force (one had to pick up train orders at KO or St. Francis back when I worked it; that was later changed to DTC, then TWC when UP took over). I remember that at the distant signals for St. Francis (on both sides), the New Line had ATS test blocks, since some trains could be using the Old line on either side of St. Francis.