So I’ve seen probably the alpha and omega of unit coal trains around here. CP seems to run short unit trains, usually behind one AC4400W or SD60. On the other end are the seemingly endless monsters that UP runs, with 3 big GEs up front and one or two more at the back.
I’m currently modeling the CP one. I’ve got both the CP AC4400Ws and SOO SD60s I’ve seen on the trains, but I’m interested in how many cars I’ll need. I’ve so far gotten 12 of the Walthers three-bay hoppers, and I’m wondering if that’s enough to look right on both my home layout and on the moderately-sized layout at a club I’m thinking of joining. It looks right to me so far, just looking for any input.
FWIW, the CP unit trains that ran coal from Kaiser Resources, in the Rockies to the port of Vancouver, BC, were typically led by two diesels (this was 30 years ago, and I have no idea what they were, perhaps SD-40 or GP 38?), with one or two “robots” in the middle of the consist to keep couplers from breaking. I would only be able to guess at their lengths, but they were easily 2 km long.
Hmmmm, it might depend more on the layout than the number of cars. The more “open” the layout is the more cars you will need to look right. In general though, I would think you would need about twice that many to begin looking like a unit train, especially if you have a loco at the rear.
On the HO layouts I run grades up to 2.5% for 50 feet or so with 36" radius curves. The “operational” rules say from 12 to 15 full weighted coal cars per engine without a helper. A larger steamer, with two sets of drivers counts as two. Last night I pulled 20 loaded cars up the 2.5% grade with a 2-6-6-2 without a helper. None of the diesels on the layout could have done that.
Unless you have a ginormous layout, you are not going to approach the prototype. What you want to try to do is fool the viewer into thinking the train is longer than it is. Without knowing your layout it is hard to say what that means, but you would like to make it difficult to see both ends at once. Then you run slowly enough that it seems to take forever to pass a single point.
you might not in HO scale, (I can pull about 36 cars using 3 locos and a helper in the mix but don’t do it very often.) But i’ve seen plenty of N scale trains that can pull close to 60 to 80 cars on one train.
I’m trying to do the shorter Canadian Pacific train that is hauled by one engine, and I’ve seen be around 60 cars. I figure having a car for every two on the prototype isn’t bad for selective compression.
After some experiences with SD40 and MLW 3 axle units, CP settled on SD40-2’s for their unit trains in BC (CP at one point had the second largest fleet of SD40-2’s). Standard configuration was 3 on the head end and 2 robots about 2/3 of the way back.
Unit train length was usually dictated by the length of the loading and unloading tracks, not much point to a unit train if you have to break it up at either end.
For a layout, I would suggest that a train around 20-25 cars would be good. At this length, you will not be able to see both ends at the same time, making the train appear to be longer than it is. Its all about optical illusion.
Every year during the month of October, the Memphis Society of Model Railroaders has a display at the Pink Palace Museum in Memphis. Since I am retired, I get to run the HO modular RR during the week. I very much enjoyed running 113 car coal trains on this layout. They were usually run from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM without difficulty. The adults visiting this exhibit really were impressed and would always ask how many cars there were. Some kids would count them. The coal train took up more than a third of the layout. Most Kids however, preferred Thomas The Tank engine running at High speeds around the tracks. My Climax set a slow speed record of 20 minutes around but no one was watching.
I am modeling the KCS in the early 80’s. (HO scale) They run a lot of unit coal trains off of the BN from Kansas City then south. I have a temporary 12’ x 22’ modular layout. (42" mainline radius but no grade) I have been expirmenting with varrious lengths of unit coal trains, trying to get someting that looks good. I plan to use 3 KCS/BN SD40/SD40-2/SD-50 units up front with a helper set of two KCS SD50s on the grades. My latest practice train is about 36 cars long. All cars are weighted to NMRA standards. It appears that I’ll probably settle between 36-42 cars. Even with the broad curves it is going to be important to mach the speed of the helper units as the train can pull off on a curve if the helpers lag or push too hard. (Digitrax DCC) Also my three up front SD units, one will be a weighted dummy as two Athearn SD-50s have no problem pulling the entire consist.
My big problem is aquiring sufficient fleet of coal cars (BN/KCS/KPLX/SEPX/GSU), with no duplicate #s for my era as I will need to run at least four unit trains in each direction to achieve a near prototype schedule of trains.
Yes, its pretty difficult to have a 30 or 35 car unit coal train without duplicate numbers if you don’t re-number existing cars. I’ve been collecting unit coal trains of the 1980’s for the D&RGW including:
-CSDU (Colorado Springs Dist Utilities) 5-bay Ortners x 30
-PSCX (Public Service of Colorado) Thall gons x 15 (still need to add 10-15 more)
-Kaiser/Fontana unit train with Trall Gons (UP&DRGW) x 30
-NORX (Public service of Northern Indiana) Thrall gons x 10 (need another 15 or 20)
-DRGW blue end Thrall gons x 20 (need probabyl 5 more)
-D&RGW 100-ton 4-bay Bethlehem x 36
Keep in mind my next layout when it gets built will be a single track so passing siding will need to be able to generally handle most coal train lengths. I still have some sets to buy as indicated above and this has been no small out lay in funds with most of those unit coal gons having come on the market just in the last year!
I dont know what scale your modeling or how big your layout is, but mine is an HO scale and I would be hard pressed to get 20,40 or more cars to fit on my entire layout so I keep mine to 10,12 cars each…My layout is in a 16 x12 bldg with the layout on 3 sides,one side being 12ft.I have to have a work area…I could see you having LOOOOOOONG trains if your layout is in a house or you run on a club layout…[2c]
I designed my layout using a 4 to 1 ratio to the prototype. My sidings are capable of handling 20 (50’) cars and two CC engines (SD60/70 etc.). Your field of vision can only capture about 10-12 cars when viewed at 90> and maybe 15 or so when viewed at <>90>. It also depends on how long your isle’s are. My isle’s are around 25’ long so I am careful to make sure the terrain is designed so that only 8-10’ are visible at any given time from any given angle. This helps distract the eye and gives the impression of a longer train. With train lengths of 15’ the entire train is not “in the scene” so it always looks longer than it really is.
Model railroading is quintessentially an exercise in the creation of illusion. There are, admittedly, locations where one’s vantage point will clearly allow you to see both the head-end and rear-end of a train; I have photographs taken out on the plains of Kansas, on the old Espee main across southern Arizona, and observing the south bank of the Columbia River from the north bank. Few of us have a model railroad big enough to capture that panorama. N Scale is definitely better than HO Scale in this regard.
I am standing three feet back from the edge of your HO Scale layout which puts me approximately three hundred feet back from trackside. I am watching your unit coal train pass. I follow the three power units - SD40-2s - on the head-end and I watch these until your track curves and they disappear into a cut; my view shifts down the length of the passing coal hoppers and, of a sudden, the rear end of your train emerges from behind the structures in Rinkydinkyville. I just love these long unit coal trains.
How do I know it was a
Well, I know SD40-2s when I see them and this train had 9000 horses on the point and that’s a lot of muscle and that muscle is required to move a heavy train over the road; and I never did see the head-end and the rear-end of that train at the same time. That was a long train! - had to be at least a hundred cars!
Go ahead! Try to convince me that you only had twenty-five cars there! I’m too smart to be taken in by a story like that!
Unit trains tend to be as long as the cliens receiving track will allow. One of UP’s daily unit coal trains out of the Powder River Basin is 115 cars long. Why? Because the unloading track/loop at the power plant it’s going to can take 115 cars.
BTW, the particular plant, in southern Georgia has a nillion tons of coal, as a reserve, in the middle of the loop.
Also, I have a video of a coal train running East through the Tehachapi Loop with, as I recall, over 30,000 HP on it.
-CSDU (Colorado Springs Dist Utilities) 5-bay Ortners x 30
-PSCX (Public Service of Colorado) Thall gons x 15 (still need to add 10-15 more)
-Kaiser/Fontana unit train with Trall Gons (UP&DRGW) x 30
-NORX (Public service of Northern Indiana) Thrall gons x 10 (need another 15 or 20)
-DRGW blue end Thrall gons x 20 (need probabyl 5 more)
-D&RGW 100-ton 4-bay Bethlehem x 36
Can you really build these coal trains at the numbers listed and keep all numbers unique without renumbering? No, I didn’t think so.
I stand my ground. I ain’t buying just any coal cars or especially no steenking ore cars! I need 1980’s correct unit coal cars or gons for the Rio Grande.
Walthers only issued in the 100-ton 4-bay Bethlehem coal cars in three 6-packs and 4 individual numbers. That is 22 (23 if the lastest single number run was a different number) unique numbers available for any road name Walthers offered for this model.
Lets take the Thrall gons next offered by Athearn in upgraded MDC RTR form. Only 15 numbers available unless they re-run them and no guarantee’s of that.
The cars are not necessarily out there for the finding - I’ve followed the pertinent models for my needs and unless you know some secret I don
-CSDU (Colorado Springs Dist Utilities) 5-bay Ortners x 30
-PSCX (Public Service of Colorado) Thall gons x 15 (still need to add 10-15 more)
-Kaiser/Fontana unit train with Trall Gons (UP&DRGW) x 30
-NORX (Public service of Northern Indiana) Thrall gons x 10 (need another 15 or 20)
-DRGW blue end Thrall gons x 20 (need probabyl 5 more)
-D&RGW 100-ton 4-bay Bethlehem x 36
Can you really build these coal trains at the numbers listed and keep all numbers unique without renumbering? No, I didn’t think so.
I stand my ground. I ain’t buying just any coal cars or especially no steenking ore cars! I need 1980’s correct unit coal cars or gons for the Rio Grande.
Walthers only issued in the 100-ton 4-bay Bethlehem coal cars in three 6-packs and 4 individual numbers. That is 22 (23 if the lastest single number run was a different number) unique numbers available for any road name Walthers offered for this model.
Lets take the Thrall gons next offered by Athearn in upgraded MDC RTR form. Only 15 numbers available unless they re-run them and no guarantee’s of that.
The cars are not necessarily out there for the finding - I’ve followed the pertinent models for my n