I want to have 2-3 loco’s on each train for my layout. Problem is, (or maybe not), is that it is DC wired. Pretty simple solution for DCC, but I’m stumped with this here. I’m told that you can run multiple units on DC, but to run them back to back requires re-wiring one or the other and typically it is difficult to get 2 of them to run at exactly the same speed. No way to calibrate them. Quick search on Ebay shows the majority of unpowered loco’s to be in the form of a dummy made by Athearn. I guess my question is to wonder if they are the only manufacturer to offer them? The other option would be to take a powered unit and remove the motor. That seems silly given the cost. Any suggestion’s?
There’s absolutely no need to rewire locos to run them back to back! The only real issue there, are locos that grounded through their frames, generally BB Athearns, which when back to back, one frame will be + and one will be - and would short if they touched, (via the coupler). The solution is simple and cheap, install plastic couplers or mount metal ones in a plastic draftgear box.
You are basically right about speed matching locos, you generally have to buy “like” locomotives. Many of us here have been running multiple units for a long time and have a pretty good idea which locos/brands match up with each other, so just ask here if you have some specific locos in mind, I’m sure you’ll get plenty of recommendations. The Athearn BBs match many Kato, Atlas and some of the earlier Proto2000.
Athearn has been the only company to make dummies in any quantity, there have been EMD Eand F B-unit dummies made by a few other companies.
HERE WE GO AGAIN!
Determine which of your two locomotives is running the fastest. Hook that locomotive up to a string of cars and keep adding cars–or taking off cars if, perchance, you happen to have too many cars on your train in the first place–until the train is running slower than what was originally the slower of the two locomotives but which will now be running faster than that whch was originally the fastest. At this point you remove one car and then you hook up the two locomotives and away you go. This same procedure will work for three lokes and even four lokes. Once you have matched these lokes you can at this point double the length of your train i.e. if you were running thirty cars then this two locomotive lash-up should pull sixty cars
Now, keep in mind that this will only work on a preset voltage. If you determine that you want to run a train at 50MPH then run the slowest loke around your layout until you have determined that it is running 50MPH; observe the throttle setting. That becomes your throttle setting for these two locomotives to operate them at 50MPH.
One other thing; try to balance your lashup with locomotives that are close in speed. This will probably work with one locomotive that runs at 80MPH at nine volts while the other runs at 190MPH at the same voltage. You could probably load that faster locomotive down to the 80MPH speed of the slower locomotive but I would seriously doubt if you have enough track and enough cars to do it.
On a DC layouts all engines in a block are going to go the same direction, regardless which direction they’re facing. The confusion comes in when you’re using DCC, since if you tell both engines to go “forward” they both go forward…so if they’re back to back, they go away from each other. You have to be sure when setting up the consist for the two that you do it so that they’re both set to go the same direction (it’s not that hard, you don’t have to re-set CV’s or anything, it’s done with the DCC system).
If one engine runs really fast on DC compared to another, you can add resistors to slow it down so it’s closer to the other engine. That’s the way a lot of folks used to do it before DCC.
Otherwise, yes I believe Athearn is the last manufacturer to offer dummy engines.
Check E-thing for Athearn BB dummies. I have GP9’s, SD9, GP38-2, DD40, SD40T-2, SW7, GP50, U28C, PA/B1, FB2, as well as AHM RS2, and FP45. Athearn, AHM(IHC) used to make everything in powered & dummy models. Train shows are another source. [:)]
Not true. Any number of DC locomotives will run happily coupled together. Engines always run in the same direction, no matter which way they are placed on the track. No rewiring is needed. Speed differences are not usually a problem. More often than not you are double heading locomotives of the same make, say a pair of Athearn F7 A units, so they both naturally run at the same speed. Even with a mixed consist, the speed differences are small and it works.
One caveat. Locomotives mostly have hot chassis, the frame is connected to one rail and is electrically hot. You need insulating (plastic) couplers or insulated coupler boxes to double head such engines.
Your experience has, apparently, been significantly different than mine. I soon concluded that they call them dummies for a distinct reason: the real dummy is not on the track but rather at the controls. Because of my experience with Athearn dummy locomotives I have never–and never will with the possible (future) exception of creating a sound car–used dummy units as an N-Scaler!
Rt P, I’m in HO, and the dummies that have seen much time on the tracks have all be weighted to close to the powered units - a powered/dummy followed by more than 10 or 12 cars is a temptation to stringline!![:O] The other problem is that Athearn used the same bodies in the past - road numbers and all!!! I actuallyu got used to #1234 followed by #1234!! Amazing what you can get used to!![:D]
Okay, I’m onfused, you mean DCC engines on DCC? or DC engines on DC or DCC? The former is true, in which you double click the nodule and the loc “turns”. The latter not so. I run two Model Power Ice locos back to back, (I changed out the endings to do so) and a pairing of a Proto SD60 and a Genisis SD70 on a DCC club layout iwh no problems. Both sets go the right directions. The issue is that DC is backwards to t=what DCC thinks is forwards. So front is back, back is front. But the important part is that the locomoives are going the right direction.
In making dummies: One option might be to just pull the gear connecting the motor to the drive wheels. This provideds a weighted loco (motor as ballast) that will free wheel and might be easier to dummy than removin g the motor itself, and it’s easy enough to repower by reconnecting the gear. Doesn’t always work though
I am running DCC now, but my previous layout was DC. I like long trains and would run a unit of three Athearn SD40-2 (powered-dummy-powered), pulling 35-45 50’ cars. The dummy would add weight to the train and I had one section of the layout that was a helper district with about a 2% grade. The two powered units could pull the train on the grade, however with the dummy unit in the consist, the wheels would slip and the train would stall on the grade; which is exactly the action that I wanted. I used plastic couplers on the dummy to prevent the frames from shorting, howerver my plastic couplers failed on a regular basis. (Very protype as the real KCS had the same problem with their real trains on the 1.8% grades in the Ozarks.) I converted back to KDs with plastic insulator and nylon screws to prevent shorting the frames.
I am now runinng DCC (Digitrax) and am in the process of converting the dummy units to sound only so I can add sound to the consist.
I run analog DC, and am sure that every locomotive (and DMU car) in a single power block will run in the same direction, regardless of which way the loco is faced.
I have combined very dis-similar locomotives (brass 2-8-2 and cast metal B-B diesel-hydraulic, for two) that wouldn’t run at anything like the same speed unloaded. All of my locomotive couplers are Kadees, mounted in plastic draft gear boxes to keep from shorting hot frames together. At prototypically low speeds (about three seconds per foot upgrade, two seconds per foot downgrade) there doesn’t seem to be any wheel slip.
At the moment, I don’t own a single non-powered locomotive, nor do I feel a need for any. On that sustained 2.5% grade, even a prototype-length train of metal cars needs all the tractive effort it can get. As for the 4% on the coal-hauler, it’s a good thing that loads all run downhill…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hello,
I am running in DC as well. You are correct the best way to get multiple engine lash ups on the train is to go DCC due to the fact that one can control the speed. My solution to this issue being that my rolling stock is DC is to purchase Kato and Atlas. These engines are basically speed matched due to the speed of their motor and gear ratios. So it is not unusual to see a kato and atlas on the front and a atlas or kato pushing in the rear. No issues at all.
It is different with sound units, the sound makes the engine require a higher voltage before starting. Older P2K locomotives also have different speeds due to different gear ratios. I do believe that this issue is now solved and they have the same ratios as Kato and Atlas. As for Athearn, it is my experience that with them it is also quite varying as to the speed at which they run at even though the drive line looks identical from locomotive to locomotive.
Hope this helps
Frank