I have recently purchased a lot of trains. In the lot were two Aster trains. A Shay and a JNR Mogul. Those were easy to id as Aster. There was a third engine in the group that I have not been able to id it’s manufacturer. It is a UP 9000. It does have a tender with it. The tender has the water and fuel tanks. There is an electric motor to pump the water to the boiler. The motor looks like an early slot car motor. The fuel tank has a plunger to pressurize the tank.
The tender is made of brass. The engine is made of brass and what appears to be galvanized steel. The engine has been run as evidenced by the oil on everything. The oil seems to have gummed up a bit and I think that everything should be taken apart and cleaned.
The burner does not have wicks. It appears to be a tube with slits cut into it.
I measured the distance between the flanges of the drive wheels and it is 32mm. The drives wheels do have a suspension.
The engine and tender weigh close to 40 pounds
Is there anyone that can point me in a direction to id this engine and get it in operating condition?
The engine does NOT look to be in working condition. I have seen 2 of them and it looks like several tubes and the ignition system are completly missing by the pics you sent.
I have seen the engine you have shown. I am thinking that an electric train like the lionel you have shown could have been the starting point for this engine. The castings for the wheels do not match Lionel though. The body work is also different. I think the lionel body is one piece whereas my engine has separate plates bent to cover the boiler. All of the rivets are done by hand as is the detail work.
My engine is definitely not in running condition. The steam oil has gummed up quite a bit and yes the flexible tubes that carry the fuel and water from the tender have deteriorated. Who know what condition the boiler is in.
The engine shown in my reply is a SUNSET brass HO. It is far from the huge beast you have there. I can imagine that a real live engine like yours will not look like the detailed brass electric one I have since mostly everything on it is none working, just cosmetic. I am checking online to see if I can find more info for you. The piece I saw was in working condition but I didn’t actually see it run. I did go over it very good. I am curious about that engine you have.
The burner on this engine looks much different from the Aster engines that I also bought with this lot. Instead of wicks there is a tube with slits cut into it. I can see that there are some extensions for the two
control levers that are missing. There is also a lever that I think is to reverse the engines. One of the mechanisms on the cylinders that attaches to that lever is stuck. Other than those items the engine looks complete.
I would like to contact someone in the Southeast that could help get this engine running again. It seems a shame to let an engine of this quality go dormant.
The Asters will find new homes in the next 10 days or so but I want to keep the Challenger if I can. It is a true work of engineering art.
What a fantastic find. I’d love to work on it myself. Assuming there are no plastic parts on it, and I see nothing that looks like it, a carburetor cleaner like Gumout would make quick work of the gunk build up, and free up the reverse valves underneath the cylinders. Relubrication will be necessary afterwards, of course. Remove the DC motor from the tender if you need to spray that as well, because it would be damaged by solvent. New valve levers can be easily fabricated from metal rod.
Whoa … watch using gumout ! It’ll dissolve plastics … and remove paint and stinks like a skunk . I use brake kleen . You can get it at auto stores and walmart . Cleans and completely removes any and all grease and oil without damage . It’ll air dry to a completely oiless finsh you can wipe surface with dry clean cloth and is perfect paint prepper . Works fabulous for switches and control devices too.
I am a UP nut, as you can tell from me screen name. By the way it’s a UP class 9000, not a Challenger. I would love to see more pics of it along with a scale so I can get a idea of it’s size. If you ever decide to get rid of it PLEASE let me know. [:)]
I happen to be reading Loco Profile No. 16 on the UP 4-12-2’s, by Profile Publications Limited U.K., published in September 1971. A very interesting read, excellent photos and technical details about the 88 UP’s 4-12-2’s and the teritory they ran in, covering the years from 1926 to 1956.
I will be careful with any cleaning that I do. For now until I know exactly what it is that I have and how to work on it correctly I am going to only clean it to the extent of removing dust.
There are no plastic parts on the engine. The electric motor in the tender does have some non-metallic components. The fuel and water lines are already shot but I do not want to remove them in case they help to id the maker. They are an externally ribbed line. Instead of clamps there are loops of wire that have been twisted tight to hold the lines secure.
My hope is that if I can id the builder I can get some sort of manual to then properly restore the engine. I really want to see and hear it run!
There is a train show here in Atlanta in Feb. Any chance there will be someone there that knows live steam O scale?
I was told that live steam in this scale and complexity is unusual. Is that so?
The engine has been positively identified as being scratch built by Rolls Neff. It is one of his later engines. Possibly in the 1970s. Mr. Neff built just over 50 engines in his career spanning 40 years from the 30s to the 70s. He built a variety of engines specifically to fill custom orders. This is probably the only example he made of the famous UP 9000.
I had beenunder the impression that the motor in the tender was to feed water to the boiler. It is actually a throttle! pwer is supplied via the rails and when the motor turns it pushes or pulls a cable connected to the throttle. No need for remote control!
The task now is to get the engine evaluated and see what it is going to take to get it running again. I would like to get more information regarding Rolls Neff if it is out there!
Here are some more photos with a scale included so that you can get an idea of the dimensions.
Should I go the route of leaving the locomotive as is - Unpainted and showing it’s history. Or, Should I try to give it a beautiful paint job and polish the brass where appropriate.
It really looks like Mr. Neff built and delivered this engine to his customer unpainted.
With most antiques if you change the original finish or restore it you diminish the value. From all of the sites I have seen there does not appear to be anyone running engines in this cosmetic condition.
