JUst curious to see if UP’s policy has had any influence on the market or to see if it changed anyone’s direction in the hobby?
Fergie
I replied “yes” Fergie, even though I don’t model UP. I do have several “existing” UP freight cars for the Bunter Ridge, since the UP system would be close by. I pick up freight cars here and there, a lot on ebay. Obviously they get no fee from ebay stuff, except if it was originally sold prior to their policy. I sort of stopped buying UP cars out of principal.
Before people start complaining that UP has a perfect right to do what they are doing, I would concede that. And I have a perfect right to not buy products that they license or that in any way promote them. They are not the only company that I boycott in some way…some for policies I just don’t want my dollars to fund and others for poor products or services.
I voted yes - I didn’t own any UP equipment before the charging was introduced, but I definitely won’t be buying any now. I agree that they have the right to do this but it just seems sad that they are so desperate to post increased profits that they’ll charge for the use of their logos on a model train. I recall reading of the ATSF’s involvement in the original Lionel Warbonnet F3 - that’s how it should be. Over here, there’s a good relationship between manufacturers and train operating companies - some of whom won’t license aftermarket decals (as they have no control over their use apparently) but are willing to work with RTR manufacturers to ensure that the result is a high-quality model. I’ve heard the argument that models are essentially free advertising - not sure how much of a consideration that would be over there, but I’d guess there were a few people who wanted to ride the Acela after owning the Bachmann model. In passenger rail terms I’d say it’s a valid point, though with freight it’s not as solid an argument - freight traffic choices have more to do with cold, hard economics than perception of the haulier. Is the extra money really worth alienating millions of model railroaders?
Adelie: You’ve made good points. Another question I should of asked was “Has anyone seen any difference between the price of UP stuff as opposed to other roadnames?”.
So … what about the AMTRAK policy (if effect before the UP!), and now the CSX policy ???
Gonna quit buying them, too ???
Fergie,
I chose “doesn’t matter” because UP has never loomed that large on my radar screen to begin with.
But to answer your second question, I was persuing the M.B. Klein website yesterday and I noticed a $5 price difference between some Athearn locos in UP paint versus non-UP schemes.
I voted: I sold my UP stuff in discust.
I did have a UP SD90MAC but I sold it to a friend of mine.
BNSFrailfan.
Sorry I didn’t know they had similiar policies. So the question remains has their policies influenced you?
Since I am modeling eastern roads, I don’t need much UP. I have one stock car and some reefers with UP on them, that will probably be it. Haven’t seen any price difference in S scale yet.
Enjoy
Paul
I can’t quit what I never started! I model 1958 in the Southwest and southern Rockies. No CSX or Amtrak back then.
I voted no. It hasn’t influenced my buying at all. But that’s because I haven’t bought anything but track for my new railroad.
I am selling off most all my N scale engines but for a different reason. ( I want a DCC system and 40 or so tortoise switch machines)
I have never modelled the UP, BUT I do model two predecessor roads, the MoPac and the T & P. As the law is much murkier on these fallen flags, I don’t believe that the policy has affected me all that much. That belief is bolstered by the fact that most of what I have yet to buy was produced before the policy went into effect.
That said, the policy has affected my decal purchases. I buy my decals from Oddballs (unless he just doesn’t produce exactly what I need), and Tom started his company on MoPac products. MoPac makes up just about the largest chunk of his catalog still, so he upped ALL of his prices to cover the costs. I don’t like that choice, but I can sympathize with it.
As the other road I model is the Frisco, I’m OK there till the Been Nothin’ Since Frisco decideds to follow suit, assuming they try to collect on the fallen gflags, too.
UP’s policy has not changed by modeling habits at all, because I prefer mid-western roads such as the Illinois Central, Missouri Pacific, Nickel Plate, Wabash, etc.
UP is the only mailine railroad running through southern Arizona (the Sunset Route), so trainwatching is rather limited and I have to travel 30 miles just to do that.
If I see something I like decorated for UP or any ot their predecessor roads such as SP, I buy it regardless of their corporate policies.
Here is some info from one of Atlas’s recent loco announcements:
ITEM# ROAD NAME ROAD NUMBER
HO Dash 8-40C Locomotive - Atlas Master Gold Series
(With Decoder & Sound)
9695 Undecorated (Phase 1)
9696 Undecorated (Phase 2)
9622 Chicago & North Western† “Wyoming Centennial” (Traditional Yellow/Green) 8542
9623 Chicago & North Western† (Traditional Yellow/Green) 8567
9624 Chicago & North Western† “Safety & Reliability” (Traditional Yellow/Green) 8577
9625 Chicago & North Western† (Traditional Yellow/Green) No #
9626 Conrail Quality (Blue/White) 6025
9627 Conrail Quality (Blue/White) 6048
9628 Conrail Quality (Blue/White) No#
9629 CSX* (Gray/Blue) 7511
9630 CSX* (Gray/Blue) 7534
9631 CSX* (Gray/Blue) No#
9632 Norfolk Southern (Black/White) 8712
9633 Norfolk Southern “Horsehead” (Black/White) 8742
9634 Norfolk Southern (Black/White) No #
9635 Union Pacific† “Baby Wings” (Yellow/Gray/Red) 9077
9636 Union Pacific† “Baby Wings” (Yellow/Gray/Red) 9091
9637 Union Pacific† “Baby Wings” (Yellow/Gray/Red) No#
*CSX Licensed Product
†Union Pacific Licensed Product
To find a dealer to order your HO DASH 8-40C Locomotives, click here.
Estimated Delivery: September 2005
Atlas Master™ Series Silver MSRP: $134.95
Atlas Master™ Series Gold MSRP: $244.95
As you can see, there is no difference in price between, say NS or undec (not licensed) and UP or CSX - both licnesed. Atlas has incorporated the fees (UP and CSX) into the cost of the models - ALL of them !!!
Walthers does the same thing with the AMTRAK Phase V license fee.
I bet soon all makers will handle it this way - the fee will be invisable except for the “licensed product” statement.
Even Athearn - who was charging the fee a good while before they started paying it to UP (did they keep the mon
I model two and a half of the railroads that UP swallowed up (Rio Grande, SP and a little WP), and so far haven’t noticed a price difference on rolling stock I buy decorated for those roads. However, as pointed out, the situation with the UP ‘fallen flag’ roads is kind of murky, and I don’t know how that’s going to come out. But whenever I think of the Santa Fe PAYING Lionel to decorate their incredibly popular F-3 diesel in Warbonnet colors back in the 'fifties, the more I think that UP has their priorities screwed up. But except for PFE reefers, I only have a couple of UP freight cars–their standard WWII paint schemes never turned me on, anyway.
Tom
New nscale engines are expensive enough without tacking on a few dollars for the UP scheme. If I saw one I really liked I would probably splirge, bit since on my RR its mostly generic stuff it doesn’t make sense to bother with the extra price.
Back in the 50’s the major railroads had PASSENGER trains, so looked at models as advertisements for paying customers. The customers are now FREIGHT companies, and a MRR does NOTHING to get the railroads any new business !!!
The only exception would be AMTRAK, but even they have a fee (it’s just more invisable, as I said before).
You can’t compare 50’s to 05’s - either in REAL or MODEL RRs !!!
I used to have a UP passenger car, but I repainted it in disgust. It’s now a CPR coach. No more UP interchange, it was ‘Bought out’ by BN (era 1988) Now all I need is a pair of BLI -2s!
Matthew
Nope. I continue to buy UP and CSX. Can’t have enough of my favorite roads.
Actually, not buying UP models (or CSX or AMTRAK, as they have fees, too) hurts the model maker FAR more than the railroad !!!
And, indirectly, the MRR hobby !!!
What such actions WILL do is to force even more dependence by the model makers on pre-orders, and if not enough pre-orders are received, the maker will drop the model (If you don’t think that will happen, Atlas just did it with their Taurus cars!). And that hurts the hobby, IMHO.
I think that the major RRs could care less if models are made or not. As I said above, it is no longer a form of advertising (T-shirts, pins and hats are far superior in this regard!), and the fee is very “small change” compared to their other sources of income.
The only real reason (and true culprit) for the fees are the current US laws make it very difficult to show ownership if you “give away” your trademark (say, on a loco model).
I look for other railroads than UP, CSX, and AMTRAK to add fees in the future - and for the same reason - trademark protection.
BTW - don’t buy any Athearn COKE or JOHN DEERE products, either - licence fees are in effect for those, too.
And, of course, the FORD cars by Atlas !