UP policy: The Aftermath

The hole in the theory that not buying UP hurts the hobby is that most of will simply buy some other road name or an undecorated model. When I decide I need x-number of box cars, I am going to buy x-number of box cars. What is at issue is simply whether or not any are decorated with UP. Yes, if enough people do that, the manufacturer will drop the UP decorated box cars from the product line. But if next to nobody is buying them, that’s fine and well, too. Supply and demand takes over in its rawest form.

As far as protecting their trademark, they can do that with licensing agreements but without fees-simply reserving the right to review the proposed model for authenticity (or not). I would suspect they would object to a UP hopper with the some obsenity printed in graffiti next to the logo. Otherwise, they would probably care less, as long as the trademark is not being used by a competitor, in a derogatory fashion, or in an effort to confuse someone else’s interest as theirs.

Advertising it is not, unless maybe a large club is modeling UP somewhere visible. What it is, however, is public relations, albeit in a small platform.

In short, when a company goes down a path that I find it objectionable, I voice that objection with my dollars. You can voice your approval or disapproval any civilized way you choose, including doing absolutely nothing. We all make our decisions.

The only noticeable difference to me is that I will have more freight cars carrying the livery of someone other than UP. Some of those will wind up in Bunter Ridge livery, which, unless the dog has changed his mind, was not charging me a licensing fee.

As I pointed out, Mark, it is not just about UP.

CSX and AMTRAK also have fees !
As does GM, FORD, JOHN DEERE, COKE, …

Will not having UP, CSX, and AMTRAK models hurt the hobby - yes, if you model any real major RR line !!

For me, UP uses the IMRL (now ICE) tracks in Iowa that I model - so I have a UP train. AMTRAK cuts across southern Iowa (the Zephyr), so it is on the layout, too.

But what will REALLY hurt the hobby is if the model maker can’t count on general sales and thus has more and more dependance on the pre-order mode, perhaps with models limited to ONLY a pre-order amount . If the ONLY way we can get models is by pre-ordering them, I think the hobby is hurt !!!

As far as just “reviewing” the model (and the T-shirt, book, pin, mug, …) goes, why should the major RRs do this ??? It cost them money to have someone do this (one good reason for the fee). It would be FAR easier (and cheaper) for them to just refuse to allow ANY models (or T-shirts, or …) to be made. Ever notice there are no models of McDonalds on the layout ??? McDonalds just said NO !!! If the major RRs just gave up and said that NO models could be made with their logos (no decals, either!), I think the hobby would be hurt, too, IMHO !!!

You must not buy anything with a logo (to include your favorite sports team) on it - ALL: of them have fees you are paying to the company - its just that UP and CSX are more open about it !!!

I’m not sure why you seem to think I should feel an obligation to award a company any share of my money, directly or indirectly, when they behave in a manner I find objectionable.

I agree that there is no need for RRs to do this. But keep in mind I think this whole thing is a chicken-hatched idea cooked up by either the legal department or the accounting department to squeeze more nickels out of thin air. Frankly, from the RR perspective, it really isn’t worth the hassle of getting involved, even with the fees. In the world of trademarks, if it is not being used by a competitor, being disparaged or being used to confuse interests, it is simply not worth it, in my opinion. Particularly when the user in question is actually a low level promoter. There are enough genuine problems out there to solve without them spending their time creating problems.

The difference with sports teams (and I haven’t bought anything with a team logo in years), they actually market their logos on “stuff.” Many have their own stores to sell the “stuff” and they certainly sell it on their web sites. That is a fair-sized business for them. Thus, anyone wanting to sell clothing, caps, whatever with the logo should pay the fee. Their “stuff” cuts into the profits of the team’s “stuff” using the team’s logo. The logo is what sells.

UP does not sell 1/87 models of their equipment. They can start if they want, but they don’t. Atlas is not their competitor. Atlas is not likely to cause confusion in the railroad business by selling HO-scale 8-40CWs in UP livery. Atlas is also not likely to place disparaging graffiti after the UP logo. If they did, UP would have a perfect right to object. Nor is Atlas claiming that the UP logo belongs to them. Atlas may have a duty to inform the buyer that UP is not involved in the manufacturer or sale of the HO scale locomotive, which any idiot would know. But, since we want to reduce things to the least common denominator these days, a disclaimer can

Some FINAL points:

The Georgia Bulldogs (thru the UGA) or the Chicago Cubs (thru MLB) are not in the business of making ball caps or T-shirts either, but both change a fee for some other maker to produce them and sell them to the fans, who pay the fee when they buy the product. Direct sales by campus bookstores or ballpark stores are dwarfed by those by other “sports” stores (check out any mall). In this regard, I see little difference between, say, the Chicago Cubs getting a fee for a T-shirt sold in my local mall and UP getting a fee for an Atlas Dash8-40CW when I buy it from my LHS.

Second, the “plot” was not hatched by UP to raise money (it’s PENNIES compared to their other revinue sources), but by the COURTS, ruling on trademark laws passed by CONGRESS. Companies were in effect told to take control of the logos or lose them. The clearest (legal) way to do this is by charging user fees. And as I pointed out, the AMTRAK license fee (thru Walthers for the Phase V models) was in place BEFORE the UP fee !!!

Third, I didn’t “tell” YOU what or what not to buy - I just projected the results if most modelers boycotted ALL models by fee-charging RRs. Judging by the poll, only half of those who model such are boycotting UP (and I suppose CSX and AMTRAK, too, if they are to be consistant), so the impact is unclear.

OK folks, I’m done - let’s get back to the hobby !

Gonna buy the new Atlas UP Dash 8-40BW ??? [;)]

Actually when it comes right down to it, MR’s decision to stop printing schedules of events in the magazine will have more far reaching and more negative effects than anything the UP or any other RR has done with licensing.

Has anybody canceled their subscription?

Dave H.

I haven’t changed very much for the simple reason I quit buying UP stuff after they completely bollixed up all rail transport here in Houston. This was shortly after they took over the SP and, as always, were looking for ways to run a railroad for free.

As to the fees, I have found that very interesting. No matter how you feel about licensing in general, UP’s program isn’t too bad in terms of compliance. Keep the records any business would keep to track inventory and know what is and is not selling and there shouldn’t be much trouble. Once every reporting period, you run the program you have cleverly set up to capture this information (not that hard with Excel or a decent database program), tote up the wholesale value and send the appropriate fee to UP.

I know a bit about pricing structures and from some of the prices I have seen, a few manufacturers have discovered a dandy little profit center which they can blame on Union Pacific. I am sure this is not the case with Tom Stolte; he’s running a small operation and his costs of compliance are far higher per unit sold than one of the larger companies.

I said no because I do not model UP, CSX, or Amtrak. Fortunately, so far NS has not been bitten by the stoopid bug. Judging by their ads they seem to have a slightly better perception of good PR than the others.

This is my first post here, normally I just listen but this is a subject that really irks me to no end. For those of you who didn’t know this actually started long ago by the Canadian Air Force (you know, one F/A-18 with many paint jobs, guy goes home at 6:00 everynight) and a small model aircraft decal company called Leading Edge, Seems the CAF wanted royalties from this little model company, ridiculous in my opinion. But now here comes big bad UP, swallows up all our favorite roads and then expects the model companies and hobbyists to pay them??? Don’t they have enough money, they even have their own private fleet of Aircraft, I know, I have worked on them from time to time. I have noticed prices on UP stuff going up and will absolutely not buy anymore stuff with UP on it, but the thing that kills me is that as a Diehard ESPEE modeler now I have to pay UP for what they did to the ESPEE, as if to add insult to injury. Now here is the kicker, more and more companies are heading in this direction, a model of a Boeing F-15, guess what, gotta pay the man, where is this going to end??? I find it disgusting that Corporate America does not have enough money from their allready inflated prices but now they have to squeeze the little guy (you and me) for more money. This new policy of UP’s is definitely going to have a big impact on me, now everytime I see one of their proud locomotives thundering by I am going to show them who I think is number one[:D]

I’ll drink to that[:D]

No Dash 8-40BW of any sort. It is still 1958 in my basement! Calendar pages turn slowly down there.

On the bright side, I did actually get some work done on the layout during the long weekend. So the layout is not completely dormant for the summer!

Cheers, gbailey.

And next week on point/counterpoint: Concrete or wood ties…the battle rages on. Don’t miss it!
[:o)][}:)][:o)]

I usually model modern day SP and to keep it prototype, I included some UP stuff on my layout to simulate the buyout…but now since UP has done what they did, i’m just going to stick with SP and think i’m going to stop at the year 1996 when UP bought out SP…chuck