I have an observation, and an observation on an observation:
(1) Has anyone else noticed that BNSF two big jumps in stock prices, revenue, etc. has come when UP is in the dumps with one of its many crisies? It seems like if you want to know how BNSF is doing over the last ten years, just look at how bad UP is doing.
(2) This leads me to conclude that BNSF is the better run road, with UP having the superior routes.
Just a two-bit observation from someone with a two-bit knowledge of westren railroads.
Yes the PPS is a very good indicator of how a company is being operated & performing. From what you say it certainly appears that the BNSF is far better run then the UPRR. Could be Omaha cannot cope with all they have these days. [;)]
BNSF has the two main superior routes, nee ex-GN Highline, ex-SF LA to Chicago racetrack. UP really can’t match those two routes in terms of grades and operating efficiencies.
It is an interesting observation that Class I’s tend to exhibit success off other folk’s misery. Kind of the inverse of Adam Smith’s theories!
I surly don’t see it getting better for the Union Pacific eather,it’s gona get much worse before it will get any better. See the UP realy screwed up when they took over the CNW Railway and then months later they than with out a breath of air they stole the SP and since then look what just happend. The UP has Failed and it is not getting any better yet!
BNSFrailfan.
The BNSF gets a boost when the UP has problems, but within a year the UP gets the business back and more. The problem now is both RR’s are hitting capacity walls. The BNSF is congested in a lot of places, they just don’t get the media attention that the UP gets. I’ve seen cases in the past where the UP derails a couple cars of corn, upright on a industrial lead and because its the UP in California, it makes the national news, the BNSF has a rear-ender with injuries in the boonies and not a peep is heard.
People are always forecasting gloom and doom about the UP. Back in 1998 people were giving it 6 months to live, just waiting for the government to break it up, analysts were sure it didn’t have enough money to pull out of its problems, yadda, yadda. You’ll notice those dire predictions it didn’t happen. All the dire predictions you’re hearing now won’t happen either.
One line has superior track than the other in certain locals. Then in other locals the table will be turned. As Futuremodel points out the BNSF has two superior lines-the old GN and SF lines. I do not think anybody believes that UP’s LA&SL or OSL is superior to the BNSF lines. Conversely UP’s California corridor and Sunset /T&P route beat the circuitous BNSF routes. It would be interesting to see some comparison on best routes with tonnage included.
Yesterday I was watching MSNBC between 1900 & 2000 EST yesterday. There was some whiz bang on by the name of Cramer. He was reviewing RR stocks & show a chart of how the UPRR stock had risen considerably in the last few months. He had NS & UPRR as very strong buys but was positive on all RRs stocks in general. His favorite rail stock at this time was UPRR. Just one mans opinion :D][:)][:p]
Yes that info you mention would be interesting. I wonder though if the Abo Canyon bottleneck on the BNSF sought of evens up the scales vs the UPRR overland. When I was routing the traffic at that time UPRR-CNW-NW-DH we used to get containers from LAX to NYC in 4 days & that was in the mid 70s! So I really wonder if the overland route is really inferior to the BNSF. From the trains magazine it 50 miles longer overland then vs the BNSF. The UPRR Sunset route to EP then the GSR to Hutchinson then the BNSF transcon may actually be shorter then the direct BNSF trancon route form LAX to Chicago [:D][:p][:)]
UP has excellent trackage Ogden - Chicago, but west of Ogden both the WP and SP lines have limitations. Still, there is no single track bottleneck all the way from Chicago to the Bay Area, since the SP and WP lines are operated directionally, normally. If the Sunset Golden State route is improved, it should be able to compete with the Transcon. Right now there are serious capacity limitations. UP is earning a profit, is reinvesting in improvements and the situation should be a more even competition in the future, especially since there is enough traffic to sustain profits and improvements in both railroads. And if the Hunt trucker agenda is addressed at all by the Fed. Govt., certainly the Sunset would be one of the first canditates.
You appear to be directing your reply towards the Oakland/SF traffic which is far, far less in tonnage then traffic from LAX. I have a tape of the Feather Canyon route made by Trains magazine & it shows trains operating both ways over that route. In fact it also BNSF trains moving in both directions as acording to the tape BNSF has trackage rights from Denver to Sacremento. I am not to sure that the UPRR does not run on both the Feather & Donner routes in both directions. As for the Sunset routes Trains magazine says the problem is at El Paso as there now is no shorter route to Dallas & places east of that in the SE USA then the UPRR. Now if you add more traffic in that would come from the BNSF transcon then the GSR then the Sunset route it maybe that El Paso will fold up like a deck of cards. Also the UPRR terminals in Chicago are on the north side. The BNSF line leaves you off in the south end. Trains says that the UPRR is considering building a connector @ Edelstein IL then run them north to the overland route. Once they did that clean up El Paso then they may have the tools to really give BNSF a run for there money. [:D][:)] Until then it is really just a dream that can materialize if the UPRR wanted to make the effort! [;)]
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper
UP has excellent trackage Ogden - Chicago, but west of Ogden both the WP and SP lines have limitations. Still, there is no single track bottleneck all the way from Chicago to the Bay Area, since the SP and WP lines are operated directionally, normally. If the Sunset Golden State route is improved, it should be able to compete with the Transcon. Right now there are serious capacity limitations. UP is earning a profit, is reinvesting in improvements and the situation should be a more even competition in the future, especially since there is enough traffic to sustain profits and improvements in both railroads. And if the Hunt trucker agenda is addressed at all by the Fed. Govt., certainly the Sunset wo
i like both up and bnsf so to say which is better makes it all the so more difficult to pick.well bnsf has a nice new paint scheme which in my opinion is way better than the old one(although i’m sure a lot of you great railfans out there will disagree with me)and i also like the up’s paint scheme,yellow ain’t all that great.so bnsf wins my vote for not only the paint scheme but also the way cool locomotives they have,gotta’ love the ac4400cw.
Spbed,
The Overland route is only directional between Winnemucca (Weso) and Wells (Alazon). West of Winnemucca trains go the ex SP through Lovelock-Sparks-Donner to Roseville, or the ex WP through Gerlach-Doyle-Feather River canyon-Marysville-Sacramento-Stockton. The plan is to send bulk commodities over the Feather River route with its less than 1% grades, and send the high priority traffic over Donner, the shorter route but much higher & steeper. Two things limit that plan at the moment. First the tunnels on Donner don’t have the clearance for domestic doublestacks. Second the city of Reno wouldn’t allow UP to increase it’s traffic levels till the trench is complete.