I brought the big boy back to the store and they tested it on their track. They had the same problem. Kept causing a short and would not clear out. So they ordered a replacement and should be in Wed. So I bought a DCC decoder for my blueline PRR M1a and istalled it. Strange thing is it caused the same kind of short as the big boy using a digitrax zephyr. So I switched from 22G track feed wire to 20 gage and that helped. I was able to get it going for a while but then it stopped and I could not get it going again. I think that digitrax is too sensitive to shorts. I’m going to try placing a resistor in the feed wire circuit and see if that helps. Has anyone else tried a resistor?
I’m not sure if you should place a resistor in the feeder wires. And I’m also not sure that Digitrax is too sensitive. DCC systems are very sensitive compared to DC. A short that a DC powerpack would be like “Eh, no big deal…” with is enough to make a DCC system run around pulling its hair out. So to speak.
A resistor in the wiring is not going to help at all other than making the Zephyr more erratic than it is now. Something is wrong with your wiring. Replace the wire between the Zephyr and track and make sure there are no loose connections on the ends and no wires touching each other or any metal other than the track. If you used stranded wire, make sure no loose strands are touching adjacent connection points on the Zephyr or track. The best wire to use is stranded speaker wire from Wal-mart or other such source.
Also check all track joints and make sure they are all tight. You don’t mention if you have turnouts, crossovers, or turn=around loops that can cause problems, so I’m assuming that you just have an oval of track.
How long are those feed wires? If you have the Zephyr sitting right next to the track and only a little feed wire, it should be ok, at least on a temporary basis. If you have a big coil of feed wire, this might be your problem. ALL DCC systems are rather sensitive to shorts - since you’re talkign about 5 amps or maybe more ont he bigger systems. 5 amps at 14 volts is 70 watts - ever toucha 70 watt light bulb? Now the Zephyr puts out quite a bit less power, but since it is the command station and can drive many extra boosters, it still needs to drop power quickly on a short. The bottom line is, there shouldn’t BE any shorts if the track wires are correct and the loco isn’t damaged in some way.
–Randy
Ahh, now we’re on to something! You’re using 20 gauge wire directly from the Zephyr to the track? That’s too small, especially for sound and/or if that wire is more than a foot or so long. You should be using 18 gauge at the very least, and 16 gauge would be better yet.
That said, I think there may be some confusion about terminology. You mentioned “track feed wire”. If you’re talking about the wire that goes directly from the Zephyr (or other command station/booster) to the layout, that is usually considered the track buss.
If you run that track buss let’s say under the layout and following the track around, you would connect the track to that buss every so ofen using anything from about 18 gauge to 24 gauge wire (opinions vary on both the distance and wire gauge). Those smaller-gauge wires connecting the track to the buss are feeders.
The smaller wire has more resistance and thus more voltage drop. The feeders from the buss to the track can be smaller gauge because there are more of them and because they are much shorter, so their higher resistance doesn’t drop the voltage very much. But if you try to push all the current through those smaller wires, especially if they’re longer than a few inches, you’ll get an excessive voltage drop which can cause exactly the issues you’re seeing.
As an example, on my smallish layout (13x16 with 2x6 and 2x10 extensions), I use 14 gauge stranded wire for my track buss, with 22 gauge feeders every three feet. And those feeders are never longer that twelve inches! If I need additional length to reach a feeder location, I “tee” off the track buss with additional 14 gauge wire, instead of using longer feeders.
HTH,
Steve
P.S. It probably would have been better for you to add your post to the original thread, instead of starting a new one.
The Zephyr is only 3 amps, not 5. And since 3 is 60% of 5, it would be like a 42 (well, 40 technically…) watt bulb. (70 watts * 0.60 or 60% = 42 watts)
[quote user=“Stevert”]
Ahh, now we’re on to something! You’re using 20 gauge wire directly from the Zephyr to the track? That’s too small, especially for sound and/or if that wire is more than a foot or so long. You should be using 18 gauge at the very least, and 16 gauge would be better yet.
That said, I think there may be some confusion about terminology. You mentioned “track feed wire”. If you’re talking about the wire that goes directly from the Zephyr (or other command station/booster) to the layout, that is usually considered the track buss.
If you run that track buss let’s say under the layout and following the track around, you would connect the track to that buss every so ofen using anything from about 18 gauge to 24 gauge wire (opinions vary on both the distance and wire gauge). Those smaller-gauge wires connecting the track to the buss are feeders.
The smaller wire has more resistance and thus more voltage drop. The feeders from the buss to the track can be smaller gauge because there are more of them and because they are much shorter, so their higher resistance doesn’t drop the voltage very much. But if you try to push all the current through those smaller wires, especially if they’re longer than a few inches, you’ll get an excessive voltage drop which can cause exactly the issues you’re seeing.
As an example, on my smallish layout (13x16 with 2x6 and 2x10 extensions), I use 14 gauge stranded wire for my track buss, with 22 gauge feeders every three feet. And those feeders are never longer that twelve inches! If I need additional length to reach a feeder location, I “tee” off the track buss with additional 14 gauge wire, instead of using longer feeders.
HTH,
Steve
P.S. It probably would have been better for you to add your post to the original thread, instead of starting a new on
[quote user=“sinebar”]
[quote user=“Stevert”]
Ahh, now we’re on to something! You’re using 20 gauge wire directly from the Zephyr to the track? That’s too small, especially for sound and/or if that wire is more than a foot or so long. You should be using 18 gauge at the very least, and 16 gauge would be better yet.
That said, I think there may be some confusion about terminology. You mentioned “track feed wire”. If you’re talking about the wire that goes directly from the Zephyr (or other command station/booster) to the layout, that is usually considered the track buss.
If you run that track buss let’s say under the layout and following the track around, you would connect the track to that buss every so ofen using anything from about 18 gauge to 24 gauge wire (opinions vary on both the distance and wire gauge). Those smaller-gauge wires connecting the track to the buss are feeders.
The smaller wire has more resistance and thus more voltage drop. The feeders from the buss to the track can be smaller gauge because there are more of them and because they are much shorter, so their higher resistance doesn’t drop the voltage very much. But if you try to push all the current through those smaller wires, especially if they’re longer than a few inches, you’ll get an excessive voltage drop which can cause exactly the issues you’re seeing.
As an example, on my smallish layout (13x16 with 2x6 and 2x10 extensions), I use 14 gauge stranded wire for my track buss, with 22 gauge feeders every three feet. And those feeders are never longer that twelve inches! If I need additional length to reach a feeder location, I “tee” off the track buss with additional 14 gauge wire, instead of using longer feeders.
HTH,
Steve
P.S. It probably would have been better for you to add your post to the original thread, instea
A point of correction on Jake’s illustration: The red feeder wire should connect to the red bus wire. The drawing shows both red and black feeder attaching to the black bus, which will not work.
Don Z.
Huh? How’d that happen? Either way, you are correct. In the mean time, I’ll go fix that, since I’m like a perfectionist.
[quote user=“Jake1210”]
[quote user=“sinebar”]
[quote user=“Stevert”]
Ahh, now we’re on to something! You’re using 20 gauge wire directly from the Zephyr to the track? That’s too small, especially for sound and/or if that wire is more than a foot or so long. You should be using 18 gauge at the very least, and 16 gauge would be better yet.
That said, I think there may be some confusion about terminology. You mentioned “track feed wire”. If you’re talking about the wire that goes directly from the Zephyr (or other command station/booster) to the layout, that is usually considered the track buss.
If you run that track buss let’s say under the layout and following the track around, you would connect the track to that buss every so ofen using anything from about 18 gauge to 24 gauge wire (opinions vary on both the distance and wire gauge). Those smaller-gauge wires connecting the track to the buss are feeders.
The smaller wire has more resistance and thus more voltage drop. The feeders from the buss to the track can be smaller gauge because there are more of them and because they are much shorter, so their higher resistance doesn’t drop the voltage very much. But if you try to push all the current through those smaller wires, especially if they’re longer than a few inches, you’ll get an excessive voltage drop which can cause exactly the issues you’re seeing.
As an example, on my smallish layout (13x16 with 2x6 and 2x10 extensions), I use 14 gauge stranded wire for my track buss, with 22 gauge feeders every three feet. And those feeders are never longer that twelve inches! If I need additional length to reach a feeder location, I “tee” off the track buss with additional 14 gauge wire, instead of using longer feeders.
HTH,
Steve
P.S. It probably would have been better for you to add your post to the
Nope, the Zephyr is 2.5 amps, not 3.
David B
Don’t worry about wiring the circle of track on the floor, find the short in the loco if there is one.
Was this a plug in decoder? If so, look and see if it was plugged in correctly. If it was reversed you might get those symptoms. There should be a labeled #1 pin and a labeled #1 socket. And you could smoke the decoder if you ran it that way too long.
Edit: Didn’t that engine run a little and stop before you put in the decoder?
I’m possitive the encoder installed right. I read the instruction very carefully and made sure that pin 1 on the decoder went to socket 1. The loco ran for a while but then stopped due to short and would not run again. I made a programming track and read the decoder in program mode and it read back 003. I assume if it will read back it is good.
Strongest likelihood - short in the engine. Pinched wire, crossed wire, bared wired touching frame or metal tire, whatever.
Remote possibility - wire inside the controller base unit gets warm and changes length or shape just enough to make contact with something it shouldn’t. If your feeder wires/bus between base unit and the contacts to the rails are not inadvertently bared, even with a single strand touching the other wire, then it must be something in the base unit, and heat is my guess for the culprit.
For laughs and giggles try changing the loco address to the road number on the engine. You have to anyway since when the Big Boy comes back it will want number 3.
Unless of course, you wanted to hook them back to back and have a tug-of war, in which case you can leave them as is.
Sinebar,
I think you should test your M1a at your hobby shop (If you haven’t already.) and if it works fine there, then send in the Zehpyr to Digitrax. Do NOT open it and try to find the problem yourself. Your warranty will be void and Digitrax will not repair/replace it for you. Just send it in, and they will take care of it.
Well then, 35 watt bulb. I guess I was looking at the Power supply requirements!
But it all still makes the point, if there is a short, you’ve got to find it.