[Updated as of 4/10/06… new trackplan is below near the bottom of the thread on page 3]
Hello Gang,
Well, if you have been wondering where the Old Coyote has been; I’ve been burning the midnight oil and using all my spare time on getting the track plan for the spare bedroom done. I have come up with this basic idea along with some filler to show possible places for route 66 and some buildings (just to give me an idea, you know).
The Layout is set in Arizona during 1953 along sections of the AT&SF line running along side Route 66; the mainline curves are all 26” radius and the switches are #6’s and #4’s. I sure would appreciate any and all comment, questions, criticisms, suggests, kibitzes, or any thing you fine folks would like to pass my way on this plan as this is my first finished plan and I’m still very out in the woods.
I know a lot of people post track plans and it can get to be a bore so I want to thank the brave souls that take the time to look and comment ahead of time.
For some strange reason this forum won’t allow portrait pic to enlarge.
I like your plan, I thought some runaround tracks might be useful though. For instance the lower right yards, if you pull in forwards your loco is stuck. A turnout added in one end would allow you to uncouple and runaround your train and switch it from there.
I see what looks like 3 “towns”, 2 with small yards and 1 with a wye.
Your railroad seems to be set up for primarily left-hand running. A train on the left-hand track running counterclockwise (inside track) can back into the yard on the right side of the plan. A train on the right-hand track running clockwise (outside track) can back into the yard at the top of the plan. I think of Santa Fe as mostly right-hand running, except for a short stretch in Arizona where the lines are divided and left-hand running is used because of favorable grades. You mentioned Arizona as a setting but your trackplan does not suggest the alinement of a hill-climbing situation. Mirror-imaging your plan would make the yards work for right-hand running.
One plus I see on your plan: the “yards” are arranged off of opposite mains so that the lead for one can overlap the other yard on the main that is not involved with yard switching. Two operators could switch at once without running into each other.
The yard on the right hand side seems to have only very short tracks-- 6 cars, 5 cars and 3 cars respectively. One would have to “double” the yard, ie pull cars from one track and then couple to those on another track, to get any kind of a train of 8, 9 or 10 cars. The very front track of that yard of course needs to ben kept open for access to the enginehouse.
On a railroad this short overall, it seems like a long lead to the enginehouse. Perhaps oil, water and sanding equipment is to be located along the lead? What is the switchback stub off one of the enginehouse tracks? It might be worthwhile as a place to spot a company service tankcar to service the engine facility…
(such as http://www.railimages.com/albums/kennethanthony/aay.jpg , my N-scale kitbash from an old Concor/Kato car)
As a place to spot an additional locomotive, accessible only by switchback movement, it might be preferable to eliminate the switchback, make the two enginehouse track a loco length or more
I wonder about the length of the wye tail track beyond the crossover - it looks like it’s about 12-14". This would be barely enough - with a short loco and a 40ft car - to get loco plus one car at a time into the industrial spurs. To fix, I recommend moving the crossover closer to the wye, giving more of a tail track to access the industrial spurs. Absolute minimum tail length should be the longest loco you would use for switching the spurs plus the longest car you plan on putting on the spurs.
This isn’t the same space you had originally posted, is it? What happened, switch rooms?
First I noticed there are lots of “switchback” industrial sidings. There are no assoicated run around tracks. There needs to be some way to let the locomotive get to the other side of the cars. Then some of the leads on the switchbacks (like the one on the left with the loco house? are too short. They must be able to hold the loco and at least one car.
I think I would try to fit at least one industry in the area “outside” the room. Lower left or right corners. Could be really interesting.
The tracks are all very aligned to the edges of the benchwork. Just a tiny bit of angle or curvature in the tracks can add some interest. Same for the highway, two long exactly straight sections at 90 degrees to one another … Then the opposite for your grade crossings, I think the road would turn a little bit to hit the rails closer to a 90 degree crossing.
The two towns (top and right side) seem very samesh {If I can invent a word}. They both have lots of parallel track.
Here is a rather fuzzy picture of modular layout under construction that is 2 feet wide. Notice now not parallel or lined up with the bench work the track are.
Edit Again:—>
Looking at this again …
While the two towns could be considered 4 because of how they are arranged on “sides” of the main (with only one crossover “in” a town). I think I would move or re-move the track to the rear of the mains and let the mains take up that extra space.
I would also change the radius on the outside main curve to 28.5" radius. I mean the track is already taking up that much space might as well use it to increase the radius.
Did you have any thoughts about specific towns being represented, industries or some particular part of Arizona? Or a general suggestion of the area. Desert or forested area?
I am so presumptuous as to play with your space and your “druthers” as to start and design a trackplan that has little relation to yours, just for the fun of it. I have only gotten as far as laying out a double-track mainline loop and staging and an area for a town that is a junction between ATSF double-track mainline and a branch.
One factor is the window. I thought it might be desireable to keep benchwork fairly narrow there for possible access to window. One double track mainline there and branch line lead suggest the orientation of the rest of the mainline-- top and left of room as long area for hidden staging, and right side of room with some wraparound corner curves for a town on the mainline where a branchline cuts off. I labeled the town “Junction Springs” just to suggest something both Arizona-sounding, and its operational function of a junction with branch. Also for identification, I labeled the end of the staging near the window as “Murdock” for the Route 66 TV show character, and the end of the staging at the bottom left as “Linn” for the late “Model Railroader” editor and trackplanning guru Linn Westcott.
Almost half of the mainline loop is devoted in hidden staging… not so good. But it allows storing FOUR trains up to 10 feet long. That is about 21 or 22 40’ boxcars in HO.
Or an FT A-B-B lashup, 16 freight cars and caboose. Or a passenger train with A-B-A F7s and 7 or 8 full-length cars.
On the four staging tracks, one could accomodate:
1 streamlined transcontinental passenger train
1 solid train of SFRD orange refrigerator cars
1 general manifest through freight train
1 local peddler freight switching stations along the line
These trains would not originate or terminate on the visible portion of the mainline but would appear
A plan you can have a lot of fun with. I’m not really adding anything, just want to emphasize a couple of the points made by others:
(1) lack of run-around track will, I fear, make your switching frustrating at times.
(2) Putting the track at a slight angle to the fascia will give it a much more interesting “llok” and you have plenty of space for this (only needs a few inches.
Thank you. Good advice, I have tried to implement it and will be posting the changed over plan tonight hopefully. crosses fingers Thanks again for catching that, I hadn’t thought of it at all.
I see what looks like 3 “towns”, 2 with small yards and 1 with a wye.
Your railroad seems to be set up for primarily left-hand running. A train on the left-hand track running counterclockwise (inside track) can back into the yard on the right side of the plan. A train on the right-hand track running clockwise (outside track) can back into the yard at the top of the plan. I think of Santa Fe as mostly right-hand running, except for a short stretch in Arizona where the lines are divided and left-hand running is used because of favorable grades. You mentioned Arizona as a setting but your trackplan does not suggest the alinement of a hill-climbing situation. Mirror-imaging your plan would make the yards work for right-hand running.
One plus I see on your plan: the “yards” are arranged off of opposite mains so that the lead for one can overlap the other yard on the main that is not involved with yard switching. Two operators could switch at once without running into each other.
The yard on the right hand side seems to have only very short tracks-- 6 cars, 5 cars and 3 cars respectively. One would have to “double” the yard, ie pull cars from one track and then couple to those on another track, to get any kind of a train of 8, 9 or 10 cars. The very front track of that yard of course needs to ben kept open for access to the enginehouse.
On a railroad this short overall, it seems like a long lead to the enginehouse. Perhaps oil, water and sanding equipment is to be located along the lead? What is the switchback stub off one of the enginehouse tracks? It might be worthwhile as a place to spot a company service tankcar to service the engine facility…
(such as http://www.railimages.com/albums/kennethanthony/aay.jpg , my N-scale kitbash from an old Concor/Kato car)
As a place to spot an additional locomotive, accessible only by switchback movement, it might be preferable to eliminate the sw
I totaly missed that and your point was well made I have lengthened the tail track off the wye to 2’ 6" by following your advice and changing around some table lengths and isle spacing. Thanks greatly for the good advice.
I am primarily instrested in the section between Holbrook and Flagstaff. I must however admit that when I moved to a spare bedroom over a garage i had to abandon most if not all my druthers and accept a huge bundle of givens (or do I have that backwards, its late here, but I’m sure you followed my meaning). I’m sort of settling for what I can get over what I want, with the idea being that if I can get this done I’ll have the experiance under my belt and a good increase in skills and learning that I can then take on to my ‘dream’ when the space manifests. Hope that wasn’t too muddled an answer to a farely clear question. [;)]
[:0] this is impressive sir and please feel free to engage in such “presumptions” with me anytime… I am going to have to sit and seriously study this! I am impressed, to say the least, that you’d do this… thank you sir. I’ll try and fit my mind around it and give you some better answers when i’m not quite so groggy.
I’ll post up what I did this week as well and would love to hear what you have to say it as well. In the meantime a big Thank you!
Yes all good points that I hope to fix, if I can figure out how [:D] Thank you for the imput it sure is appreciated. and old silly coyote like me needs all the help he can to get his paws unstuck from track laughs Thanks again will see what I can do to adress those well made points.
Ok gang here is the newest version with a good deal of changes put in based off the good advice that you all have supplied.
Info:The layout is set in Arizona, 1953-54, alongside the AT&SF tracks running parallel with old route 66 in the regions between Holbrook and Flagstaff.
The outside mainline curve radii is 28” inside mainline curve radii is 26”, track centers should be good, leads to Wye curve radii are 26”.
I also decreased some switchbacks, added in run-arounds, lengthened track and added in some more crossovers.
I increased the length and decreased the width of the lift out section (which will hopefully actually be a “roll out” section)
I know the tracks are still parallel to the fascia. I’m still not sure how to solve that and not loose a lot of track but I’m working on it in my head.
No staging and honestly not sure how to add any. Any advice on that would be a god send.
I have applied no grades yet to the over all layout but there will be a few and they will be fairly gently and low, mostly just for visual look. Any advice on this would also be greatly welcomed.
Now your plan has got LOTS of crossovers…three pairs I believe. I notice all of the crossovers are in the middle of tangents (stretches of straight track). Sometimes it helps to put crossovers at the beginning of a curve, letting the curved of the crossover turnouts form part of the curve. I wrote a little article about this in last years Model Railroad Planning 2005 Here is a rough drawing.
Runarounds are important. I notice your plan shows runarounds on two of the spurs in what looks like a small yard on the right side of the drawing. The runarounds are only long enough for one or two cars, and they take away greatly from the otherwise useable length of those spurs. A yard this small probably needs only one runaround, and if your mainline is not too busy, the right and left hand crossovers could be moved far enough apart to allow a locomotive to run around three or four cars.
Another possibility is a yard lead that comes off the main several car lengths back from the yard ladder and connects back to the main further down. That way the lead can be used both as a lead and as a runaround, with a switcher leaving cars on the lead while it quickly goes out on the main to get around to the other end of the cars.
Your yard on the left side seems somewhat small. Yards do NOT have to be all straight. Letting a lead into the yard begin on the bottom part of the drawing would add more useable length. It does not look like you can cut a switch for the yard into the top of the plan because of the width of layout taken up by the base of the wye. However, the stub ends of the yard spurs could curve around a bit on the inside of the mainline curve at upper left, to add 2 or 3 car lengths. I am trying to squeeze in a way to have yard tracks that can handle a 6, 8 or 9 car train.
By the way, I have been doing some prototype research on the Santa Fe in the area you plan to model. There was
For what it’s worth, here are links to a discussion on another forum of layouts with a similar theme-- Santa Fe in northern Arizona, Flagstagg and Winslow area
Yes, I realize these are N scale and you are building in HO but they might give you some ideas, and they may have some things you haven’t seen because they were on an N scale forum.
