About 35 years ago I acquire an unpainted brass 2-6-6-2 logging steamer as part of an estate sale. I had no specific plans for it but I thought one day I might actually put it to use. I ran it only occasionally on my old DC layout. I recently came across it as part of my effort to unload a lot of equipment I had acquired over the past 40+ years that don’t fit the current theme of my fictional railroad and were just taking up space. I ran it on my DCC layout using address 00 and it still runs reasonably well. I thought it might be put to use as my fictional railroad set in 1956 still runs lots of steamers, some of which are castoffs from railroads that had dieselized by that date. To do that would require painting it and installing a decoder, preferably with sound, but this seems like it would be a daunting task and something I could easily screw up. My question is if there are companies or individuals who do this type of work for a fee. I’d like to put this loco on my roster but I’m afraid if I were to attempt to upgrade it, I might end up destroying it instead.
There are people who do this type of work, but the wait is very long and the costs are very high. Painting brass is an art form and one that is quickly vanishing from the ranks of model railroaders. Those who are able to paint nicely and do it for others get booked up, usually a year or more in advance. This has caused a lot of burnout among the custom painters. The engine, most likely a NWSL(Northwest Short Line) import will need a can motor installed so that DCC/Sound can be installed. A “keep alive” circuit is also highly recommended. If you google search brass train custom painters, you will find several websites for those that do this kind of work. I would take some pictures then email each person and inquire to costs to have the model painted, DCC/Sound installed, working lights, ect. and include the pics of the model to show what you have. Good Luck. Mike
John,
Does it have an open frame motor or a can motor? Even some brass locomotives from the late 70s had can motors.
If it already comes with a can motor then that’s a major plus. I converted a NJ Custom Brass 2-6-6-2 Mallet to DCC, added two speakers inside the boiler (along with the decoder) and an SMD LED to mimic a flickering firebox. It took a bit of thinking through to do all that but I got it to fit and it runs and works great. The only thing left to accomplish is to add the front headlight.
I haven’t painted it for my road yet. Maybe someday. The important thing is that it runs well.
If you’ve successfully done a sound install before then doing one in a brass locomotive isn’t that much different. You just have to isolate the motor brushes from the frame and wire in your decoder (& speakers). The challenge is making sure everything will fit when you put it back together…but it’s that way with any DCC install.
And, I’m going to disagree with Mike: If you have a 2-6-6-2 with good pick-up, you shouldn’t need a keep-alive module since the frame (and your pick-up length) is quite long. Therefore, you shouldn’t experience hesitation - i.e. unless you trackwork is dirty and/or your track wiring is minimal or spotty. If that’s the case then a keep-alive would be beneficial…but it’s not necessary.
Tom
The answer is yes, there are companies that do this.
Others have explained some of the “cons” for contracting this out.
I have never installed DCC in a brass locomotive, but I have modified some to run with electrical pick-up and lighting wiring all contained in the tender. I would approach a DCC installation the same way. Wire all pickup to the tender wheels and run four wires to the boiler, two for the motor and two for the headlight.
I am not suggesting this is the best method, just sharing what has worked for me, and is not too difficult.
-Kevin
I suspect his is a tank Mallet as most logging engines were in the 2-6-6-2 unless its a PFM Sierra, pics would help establish what he has. Then we can get an idea and game plan to what that engine would need. Pretty much any logging Mallet will NOT have a can motor unless previously upgraded. Most all came long before the builders started using them in that type of model. If the OP can post up some pics of the model that would be of great help. A Keep Alive really does away with needing to try and set up power pickup on extra wheels. And on a tank Mallet there is precious little space to accomplish this anyways( I know as I have owned a couple of the NWSL 2-6-6-2 engines and one of the PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2’s with a tender). Both ran well with the stock power pickup, a can motor, DCC with Keep Alive would be my direction if I was doing a rework for someone. They really are straight forward to take apart and work on, I would say much easier than the modern plastic/diecast steamers from BLI ect. Its the painting thats much harder to pull off nicely. Mike
I would reccomend contacting your LHS as some do this work or know of someone who does if you live in a decent sized city. Last year I purchased 3 brass locos. Two had can motors but needed servicing. I had motor decoders installed and headlights changed to LED. The cost was $100 each and they both run beautifully now. The third needed a can motor and I had a Tsunami2 decoder and keepalive installed for a cost of $300. It crawls on speed step one. He also paints and the cost is $200-300 depending on the work involed. This fellow has been working on brass for over 40 years and truly is an expert so they are around. I won’t give out his name on the forum.
CN Charlie
I have an old United/PFM SOUTHERN PS4 4-6-2 that draws 1.4 amps with its open frame motor.
It runs fine, and it is no problem for my Troller 2.5 DC power packs. I would imagine it would require a motor upgrade for DCC to be installed.
-Kevin
I’ve now painted two diesel shells, plastic, and repainted one passenger car shell (a 50’ diner). I applied decal road name and road numbers. Also decal striping. Last such work I did when I was a teenager.
If you just paint the locomotive black (a dark grey would look faded black) you could produce a decent look while you find a custom painter to add any detail work, which is the tricky part.
I have no experience with painting brass but surface prep is the key. You’d want to use appropriate degreaser and for brass probably a very mild corrosion remover. You need model paint compatible with brass. Model paint is formulated to create thin coats. Primer first, then your selected shade of black.
Even if your unhappy with the result you’re no worse off. Paint comes off in much the same way as the original surface preparation needs to be done.
If you want the added detail of grey smokebox things get more complicated but with careful masking you may be amazed at how easy the simpler stuff actually is. You do need to think through a project to get the masking order correct so you don’t overpaint your model. Most steam should be easier than most diesels because black was the “popular” colour. To match the smoke staining I suspect.
Before tackling the brassie try your luck on an older plastic model you don’t mind messing up a bit.
I initially thought I lacked the skills to paint the two tone CPR maroon and grey with “gold” striping (actually yellow and available as decals thank goodness). But Tamiya masking tape products are amazing (and priced accordingly). You can even get curvy stuff to mask out curved lines. The decals may be handy but you still need to be able to accurately mask the line between the two colours. I used Tamiya spray bombs which are a cut above the standard stuff. Tamiya paint is very nice to use. Microbrushes and small containers of model paint are handy for touchups and small a
Thanks to all who replied. For starters there is no chance I would undertake this project myself. Typically when I do something for the first time, I screw it up badly. Since this is a one and done project, that approach is unlikely to yield good results.
The reason I say it is a logging loco is I remember doing some research on it several decades ago and was told that. I also learned the retail value of it was estimated at $150. That might have gone up some since then. I acquired it about 35 years ago but I have no idea how old it was when I bought it. It had no box and was not shiny new. For all I know it could be 50 years old or more. I’m pressed for time right now but will try to post some pictures this evening. For now it looks very much like this offering on ebay:
United Models/PFM HO Scale BRASS Sierra RR 2-6-6-2 Mallet Steam Loco/Tender | eBay
For all I know, it could be the same make as my loco.
John,
In addition to asking at the LHS, contact the local (or as near as local as you can find), NMRA chapter in your area and inquire about a local painter/fixer. Keep expanding the search area until you find one. They are out there (I know a couple). Thoroughly vet anyone you find and make sure that they are completing projects for customers in a timely fashion. Expect to wait once you locate an individual.
In general, test the loco thoroughly on DC first before making any decisions about what to do in terms of decoder installation. The United/PFM Sierras can be good runners with old motors although a new can will run better. They also have reliable, but noisy drive trains. Re-motoring is relatively easy, reworking the drive train is not.
If the loco runs well and doesn’t stall or have other issues, I would leave the electrical pick-up scheme as it is and install a two-amp decoder, speaker and a keep alive in the tender. You have room for all of the components and the keep alive is extra insurance.
I have done sound/DCC installs in the Sierra and other logging articulateds and I haven’t had to add extra pick up to most of them due to the long wheel base pick up capacity. I use the two-amp decoders because they aren’t much bigger (or expensive) than the one-amp versions and they hold up better in often finicky old brass locos.
Good luck with the project,
Guy
While my layout is DC, I have done a couple of DCC installations for friends - they’re not that difficult, but I’m totally baffled by the programming procedure - it seems to me a lot of gobbletygook compared to DC. The latest one was for a dead rail locomotive.
Painting and decal work shouldn’t be at all intimidating - do it and you’ll see.
As for painting and lettering, I’d suggest that you do it yourself. When you do screw it up, that’s one that you can cross of your “it-always-goes-wrong-on-my-first-attempt” list, then clean-up your screw-up and do it properly…perfectly do-able because it then won’t be your first attempt.
You could use an airbrush or good quality (Tamiya) spray cans, or a brush. If you’re convinced that you’ll screw-it-up, use a roller, and you’ll quickly learn what a real screw-up is like.
Have some confidence in yourself…everything we do for the first time can be scary, but running away from it gains you nothing but more fear.
Personally, my fear would be in the costs to have someone else do it.
Wayne
Perfectly stated.
[(-D]
-Kevin
Thankfully that’s not the case with NCE systems. [:D] It’s quite intuitive - even doing it the first time.
Tom
If painting and upgrading this locomotive would be something I would do again in the future, it might be worthwhile to learn the skill to do it but as I mentioned in the OP, this is a one-and-done endeavor. What good does it do me to learn by trial and error if I screw up my one and only attempt at it. I’ll end up with an unusable loco for my efforts. Painting isn’t the part that concerns m
The main problem with programming DCC is the software is very old by today’s standards. There is no real interface between what the chip needs to know and your fingers typing in the numbers.
We’ve become accustomed to very sophisticated interfaces pretty much all based on PARC GUI software principles which date way back but were very clever originally. You touch or click on a defined area on a screen and hey presto the computer “understands” what you want. Now you can even just speak a word or phrase into the computer microphone and the software translates that into the numerical format the computer needs to execute the instruction.
(There’s that great gag in Star Trek the Movie where Scottie is confronted with a very old computer that does not respond to voice command. He treats the mouse as a microphone. Given how far into the future that’s supposed to be the gag works on several levels.)
DCC seems complex but it’s the opposite. It’s confusing in part because it’s so simple as a software system. The solution is to use the decoder maker’s “look up chart”. I call it that because actual general computer programming also involves coding the processor to go “look up” some value and perform a calculation. The decoder maker does all that hexadecimal conversion stuff for you. You are the processor that must use the look up table, there’s no user interface to do that for you. Mind you I’ve heard there are now software products that do provide a nifty interface to allow easier interaction with decoder chips. When I go DCC I intend to get one of those.
I find it easier for now if I do not try to figure out anything. I just pretend it’s impossible to understand, look up the CV number, read the features you think you want and find the correct number to type into that CV to get those features. Works great. If you make a mistake just do it over. If you can’t recall where the mistake was made just reset the de
Ummm…
That scene was actually in Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home, not Star Trek, The Motion Picture. Star Trek IV took place 265 years from now, or 300 years from 1986 when the scene you describe took place.
Stick to what you know.
[8-|]
-Kevin
Ever hear of JMRI? It’s constantly being updated, so can be considered “new.”
Some systems are confusing in their implementation of DCC, like Digitrax. Locobus, “acquire” locos, “dispatch” locos, and all that are confusing. But NCE, which was designed from the ground up to be as easy to use as possible, doesn’t get confusing unless you really start getting down into the weeds, so to speak, which I almost never have to do.
Again, there is - JMRI. It makes changing speed curves and all that other stuff easy to do. Setting it up requires a bit of work and knowledge, but once up and running it’s simplicity itself to use.
My DC controller can change speed curves with a movement of the speed-control knob…even a brain-dead operator can easily make it work. [swg]
Wayne
Hi there. If you can’t find a pro, you might want to do a temporary paint job, as suggested earlier. This is probably a good engine to start with if you want to try upgrading and painting a brass engine. Logging companies were typically not too fussy about the paint on their engines (as long as it’s black…), so it would not be too difficult. By the way, many companies did keep their engines clean - I find that many modelers over-weather their logging engines.
Black auto primer can to the job. As mentioned earlier, it’s not a one-way deal - it can be easily removed later. I suggest you remove the boiler and paint it separately. You can also paint the tender with the can - just protect the wheels with masking tape. A pro would also dismantle the power train and the side rods, but you can brushpaint the frame if you don’t want to risk that. Several light coats, and try to pass the brush only once or twice. A good brush makes a huge difference.
I find the biggest challenge in re-assembling brass engines is putting back in those tiny screws. The best trick I found is to put a dap of silicone on the screw driver to hold the screw. Alway work deep on your work bench to prevent a drop - I don’t know how clean your work area is, but in my case, finding a tiny screw on my basement floor is HELL. Line up little plastic boxes and place the screws in them, in the order of your engine (left boxes hold the front side of the engine parts). Some people take pictures.
All parts should be thoroughly cleaned - warm soap and water works. Auto primer paint is not fussy… Try not to manipulate the outside of the boiler, the oils on your fingers will leave marks. If there is tarnish, you can use a dremel with soft brushes, at low speed, to remove it. Go easy on that. A little tarnish in the corners is not a problem, as long as it’s not thick or crusty. When totally dry, paint with the rattle can. If you are not used to doing this, practice on an old boxcar. Touch up using
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