I have got the first engine with sound on a DC layout.What is the advantage of Quantum Engineer or MRC Black box or some other DC sound operating system? I don’t plan on DCC yet.
See a video clip (Flash or WMV ) of the Walthers Proto 2000 CNW E7A and 8 passenger cars and my analog sound control efforts from the transformer.
Just my 2 cents…
If you want sound, why not use the money towards a DCC system? A Zephyr or PowerCab will serve you well!
David B
I’ve got to agree with David, even though I still use DC. None of the controllers mentioned control all the sound decoders, nor can they duplicate all the functions available on DCC. Final blow is that with a DC sound controller, you can only deal with one sound locomotive on the layout. Multiple sound locomotives in DC require multiple controllers, each being fed through a block control system to the correct locomotive.
I can’t see spending additional money on an inferior DC sound system when I could be applying the $$ towards DCC.
just my thoughts
Fred W
if DCC is not an option, then I would go with the MRC Blackbox, it’s the only one that will operate most all the different brands of sound decoders, lok sound, soundtraxx, qsi, mrc, mth…blue line sound only is about the only one it will not work with, unless a motor decoder is also installed.
offer acess to up to 18 sound function controls.
If you know you’re eventually going to go DCC anyway, might as well quit putting money into DC that won’t take you where you want to go.
If you’ve decided that DCC wilkl never blight your layout, like me, probably, then you should look at how the various control units work, and therefore, which one will work better for YOU.
The Quantum Engineer has a microprocessor controlled relay in it. That’s a DPDT switch with a tiny computer flipping it back and forth. When you activate your horn using the opower pack, you flip the direction switch, right?
The QSI unit does exacly the same thing, very very fast. They have like 20 or 30 back and forth flips programmed into that thing, and it will do what your direction control will do, only MUCH easier, to the point where you use the sounds much more frequently than you will with just the direction switch on the power pack.
I do NOT have facts to back this up, but I believe that the MRC Black Box actually takes a DC input and creates a DCC compliant output signal out of thin air and electronic miracles. I say this because MRC explicitly forbids having this unit inline while operating straight DC locomotives.
Now, the Quantum Engineer will ruin a DC locomotive’s day if you try to blow the horn while dragging a long freight, and your’s too when it all hits the floor, but as long as you don’t push the buttons on the QE, the straight DC trains run FINE with the QE hooked uip, as long as you leave it alone.
But the MRC unit says you have to disconnect it. My LHS guy, who is 8747435623424372387276 years old and knows EVERYTHING about model railroading has no idea how the Black Box works, but, through elimination, we have figured out some things it probably can’t do, leaving only a few options how it can do what it does do, and we are so far convinced that it generates a DCC compliant signal or a near DCC compliant signal, and your DCC trains run in DCC mode on your “DC” track.
Well that raises so
I have DC and several sound locos equipped with dual function chips, and also have no plans or desire to go to DCC. I have a Quantum engineer for QSI and a Presision Craft DC Master for Loksound. I have found them to be entirely adequate for when I want to run my sound locomotives. I had both wired in to my various blocks with DPDT switches. I got cute and also had one of the two button switches wired in the same way, and it was okay for having the lead engine and the pusher “talk” back and forth, but I won’t bother with that next time.
Actually, the Zephyr at 199 MSRP is hardly in the thousands (and it can be had for alot less). It will do everything you would ever want in a DCC system.
And if you go with NCE or Digitrax (like I origionally suggested) it will run DC locos as well.
Remember that all sound locos are designed for DCC operation first (Blueline included) with DC as an after thought. The only way to get full sound out of these units (like how they are operated on the video of the E units) is to use a DCC system. Any ‘black box’, ‘quantum engineer’ or the like is just a bandade (spelling?) towards the situation.
That being said, I am only trying to help. As an employee at a LTS who specializes in DCC and the like, I help out many people everyday in the same situation as the OP. I am only trying to help.
David B
Will a Zephyr, without spending more than the initial $200:
Interface with your PC?
Allow PC control?
Run all your signals?
Give you multiple throttles?
Allow RF or IR throttle communication?
Automatically run reversing loops?
Transmit position data?
“Do everything possible” means “do everything possible”, and I’m going to stand by my claim there, you’re into $$thousands at that level.
If that’s what you want, you’d be
[quote user=“jeffers_mz”]
Will a Zephyr, without spending more than the initial $200:
Interface with your PC?
Allow PC control?
Run all your signals?
Give you multiple throttles?
Allow RF or IR throttle communication?
Automatically run reversing loops?
Transmit position data?
“Do everything possible” means “do everything possible”, and I’m going to stand by my claim there, you’re into $$thousands at that level.
If that’s wha
I agree. Let’s keep the discussion civil and oriented toward providing the OP with useful information, and not hyperbole.
Driving a DCC/Sound engine with analog 12 volt power is nothing more than maintaining a mimimum voltage to keep the engine’s computer (Decoder) “Up”
There is no such thing as thousands of dollars in full DCC. That is myth. Fact, My Super Chief 8 amp system with DT 400 throttle cost me about 400 dollars total. The computer JMRI software free. The Locobuffer USB 60 bucks.
It’s the Locomotives that are pricey in numbers. I probably spend about 600 dollars or so out of my total hobby budget per year on engine purchases.
Hardly the thousands and thousands required to control a DCC engine.
You might as well go ahead and buy a NCE or Digitrax system and move into Full DCC. That way your engines will appreciate much better quality power to feed on and not get screwed up should you drop voltage too low on a analog pack.
[quote user=“davidmbedard”]
[quote user=“jeffers_mz”]
Will a Zephyr, without spending more than the initial $200:
Interface with your PC?
Allow PC control?
Run all your signals?
Give you multiple throttles?
Allow RF or IR throttle communication?
Automatically run reversing loops?
Transmit position data?
“Do everything possible” means “do everything possible”, and I’m going to stand by my claim there, you’re into $$thousands at that lev
Thanks for all the advice and tips.
I know there has been infromation available about DCC, but I was not able to find out much about these claims for the quantum engineer or MRC black box.
I have to admit I bought my first sound engine as sort of a test, like for example to even see if my wiring would support sending any signals at all to a locomotive. (is the fact the sound loco does work well indicate my wiring is good enough for DCC?). I am hoping my wiring is good enough to send signals through the track now that I can activate the sound freatures by analog method, as the Walthers P2k manual devotes several pages upfront about that. So they seem to be trying promote the view that DC can be used to have sound locos.
I made a mistake, trying to to tandem the new sound E7 with a P1K Erie built, the latter was going 30 smph when the E7 was warming up, and of course I discovered the first time I tried to blow the horn, the Eric built went into reverse. Again this was my first try, so I knew right away why that happened —and what that meant in capabilitues (that only DCC I guess would resolve the consist issue). But that shows the limits of the quantum engineer and black box as well.
I really appreciate the advice of the alternative of using dpdt switches to route power and allow for a using sound engines on DC. Right now I have been using a MRC cab control model 55 portable throttle as well 2 maiin powerpacks that I had been using with Atlas controllers for so many years, using the old DC block methods, but being able to select from the three cabs for any section of the layout.
I think I will try the ‘interim’ MRC black box with the wiring to be able switch between that and the regular DC transformer. and see how much I like sound after a while.
Greetings
I’m curious what full scale train is controled remotely by varying the power in the rails? I just started this hobby and thought it seemed more proto to radio the loco and tell it what to do. DC never interested me.
Just my thoughts.
Lee
They havent made radio recievers small enough yet for good control. You probably can make it happen but right now the model does best through the rails.
On the protoype the rails are energized for signalling only not for power unless it is a Maglev or HST of somekind.
You just hit the nail on the head for yourself. Now you see the problem with sound units and DC that they dont tell you in the advertisements. You cannot consist with non-sound units, and non sound units do funny things when you press the buttons.
You are correct, all consisting issues are eliminated with DCC. You can consist anything with anything. For example, I can consist an Athearn BigBoy with a Life Like SW1200 if I wish. Or an American 4-4-0 with an AC4400CW. You just need to set up the speed tables in the decoders so they all behave the same way (speedmatching).
David B
Another problem with DCC/Sound unit is the abuse on the power pack. My Tech 4 220 started to lose the labels and get shaky on the switches as I hammered out the sound in my pre dcc days.
Can you consist sound units together with non-sound units using DCC? Long term, without ill effect or operating problems?
If the Non sound units have DCC decoders on them there is not a issue.
Commandment Number one… DCC units CANNOT consist or run with ANALOG units.
There are situations where one decoder will control several engines in a pernament consist, another situation where a decoder is in one engine and the sound array is carried in a second engine hard wired to the consist.
Maybe this will help…