Looking at using Computer Generated Switch List programs for operations.
I would like to know the thoughts of those that have worked with these operating systems and what you liked and disliked about them.
I would like to hear from those that have used the system for more than a year or so and how easy or hard it was to make changes to the system as you made changes to the layout.
My layout is not finished yet (actually I am adding on to the layout area - so the layout will be changing as I continue to build).
But I want to be able to do some operations as the layout construction continues!
Thanks
BOB H - Clarion, PA
I’ve operated on two layouts that use computer-generated switchlists. One uses homebrew software, and the other one uses ProTrak.
Each program generates plausible switchlists which make for interesting operation. The one thing that has historically been a problem with automated switchlist systems is when a movement doesn’t get made as planned during a session or a car is misrouted. If a car is supposed to make several movements, say it is supposed to be picked up from an industry, set off at a yard, switched into another train and sent out to another industry, interchange or location off-layout, things work well so long as each step is completed successfully in the necessary order. If not, things come apart pretty quickly.
For both programs, you can go back after the session and enter corrections for things that didn’t go right, but the homebrew one isn’t set up to issue new lists during a session to make corrections in real time, a capability which is more desirable the greater the number of crews you have at a session. ProTrak permits this.
In both cases, the layout owners spend considerable time before and after their operating sessions making sure that the computer knows where everything is. I suppose that this could be turned into a simulated “clerk” job.
The difficulty I saw with the homebrew switchlist generator was that it was designed to set everything up in advance and print all the switchlists before the session starts. With ProTrak, you can (and if you have more than two people operating, you SHOULD) print the switchlists as you go along. On a large layout, I’ve seen the best results with ProTrak when there is a clerk/agent responsible for handling all of the ProTrak data entry and switchlist generation during the session.
You can still mess up a ProTrak session by printing all of the switchlists before the session, but that eliminates one of key reasons I can see for using it.
Personally, I’m a car-card-and-waybills guy, letting
Seeing how my “day job” is a professional database programmer, I will likely end up using a “homebrew” program.
Your comments above are noted and I will use them in the future.
To add to what Fritz has said, one of the key concepts in any system is “standing order”, that is knowing which track cars are in and the exact order of the cars in that track. Its is not as critical for industries, but it can be critical for yards. The bigger the yard is, the more critical it is. Real railroads use systems that record the standing order of the cars in a track. The problem is that requires an awful lot of detail maintenance. With car cards its fairly easy to keep track of.
In a broader context, it boils down to knowing where a car is versus where it is going. Many list systems on keep track of where the car is going, not where it is currently. The "switchlist’ they provide is a list of cars scheduled to the outbound train. The switcher has to find those cars and block them out. If the switcher doing the classification work has done a good job and has maintained classification, keeping all the cars for a train or block in one track, then its not too bad. If the cars are scattered then its more difficult.
The strong point of the list programs I have seen are in supporting industrial switching or local operation. They seem to be weakest in supporting yard operations. I will admit that I am more familiar with car cards. I have investigated several model systems but only operated on couple layouts that used computer lists. They just aren’t that common.
Of the model systems I’ve looked at, Pro-Trak seems to be the most prototypical and designed to support yard operations (as Fritz described).
Dave H.
have tried about everything for operation, I finally settled on the car card/waybill with modifications. But there was a period back in the 60’s when I used waybills, switch lists and wheel reports. I worked for the Santa Fe summers during college as a car clerk, yard clerk (mud hop) and various on line clerical functions. After college I joined Santa Fe at the GOB. My layout in Topeka used all the paper clerical tricks I learned during the college years.
Mid 60’s I was tapped to go to IBM school and learn programming for the 350/360 family. My first assignement after school was to develop the first live car file, 10 diskpacks using BDAM access, paper tape/card input. Other similar assignments followed until I left Santa Fe in 1970. Since then, I have used my home desktop/laptop for keeping records of all diesels and cars, other info, forms, etc. But the closest tie to the railroad itself is the dispatcher/train sheets kept on the computer for operating sessions-everything else is car/card. I guess those early years maxed me out as far as paper work while railroading.
Bob
I started using car cards and waybills when the Air Force was still programming computers with cables and plug boards. About three days into the process I noticed that keeping the cards in order automatically created a car-order listing on each yard track or in each train.
Later, I made my system more complex in a way that I won’t describe, except to say that it gave me the equivalent of switch lists without disturbing the car-order listing feature. At about the same time, computer geeks were programming their home-built computers with DIP switches and Bill Gates was in high school.
By the time the home computer revolution plunked this keyboard on my desk (and a printer on a side table) I’d thoroughly debugged the system, with permanent cards, tags and re-useable waybills. I see no need to add throwaway paper lists to the trash stream.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I have used Car Cards, Tab-on-Car, and a computer generated switch list program. By far, I like the later the best because the moves are random for the most part. More so than either Car Cards or the Tab-on-Car system. The program I use is called Rail-Op, and there is a great support group for it at YG. It is a very versatile program that can handle yards, industries, interchanges, staging, service tracks, car floats, and passenger trains as well as freight. And if you get the advanced version, you can set up loads and empties, car routing and schedules etc. To me, this makes it more fun to operate because you don’t really know what the next train is going to do exactly until you get the printout of the switch list. And there is more than one way to setup the same job. (I’m not sure if this is good or bad, but you are not locked in to doing everything one way.) You can print switch lists in advance, or as you go.
Also, I am not associated in anyway with the program or the manufacturer / vendor. I am just a satisfied user.
Thanks for the replies.
This seems to be what I have been finding out myself.
I thought I might have missed or overlooked something.
Again Thanks!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Here is a suggestion for the ProTrak info. Go to the website for ProTrak which is in the Yahoo groups area, and then go to the files area and download the file "ProTrak Basics 1-6.pdf. It will give you a great overview of the whole program and if you had the program you could be up and running after studying the manual. This basic manual is authored by Doug Seymour and he has done a great job in making ProTrak “user friendly”. Give it a try…
Dick Foster