The news that Athearn will not be releasing the Pacific through the Roundhouse brand has me thinking what other HO engines also never materialized after they were announced.
As the news of the Pacific being re-released was first made in 2008 and now with the latest news in 2011 makes me wonder if this engine would be the winner of such a dubious award.
Hardly. Broadway Limited announced the GN S-2 so long ago I don’t remember when (2005-2006?) I ordered one, waited two years, cancelled my order, waited another year, ordered it again, waited, cancelled the order.
I’m guessing there is going to be a bunch of vaporware trains in the next little while…oh well…scratchbuild them…
Not so much as vaporware, but what is puzzling is all the delays. Why can’t these manufacturers deliver their products on time? Ya I know it’s a China thing, but there must be something they can do to change the process.
Let’s compare it to the Video game industry. Sure sometimes they have delays, but about 99% of the time when company X announces a new game release for such and such date, they deliver.
I know this hobby is a lot smaller than the gaming industry, but there are a lot of small gaming company’s that compete with the big ones by coming out with new innovative games and deliver their products to the consumers as promised.
Has this always been the case with this hobby? When manufacturing was here in the US?
Duke Nukem’ Forever!!!
In many cases, it’s really not that difficult to figure out why. These specialty locos like the GN S-2 aren’t ever going to sell like a Big Boy, so a certain number have to be sold in order for them to be made at a given price point. If enough orders aren’t generated - nothign is built. They may extend the delivery hoping to get a few more orders to push it over the manufacturing threshold, or they may end up just canceling the thing dues to lack of interest.
What it comes down to is that if only a small number of people are interested in something, even a plastic loco is going to cost a lot of money, when you figure in tooling costs. Especially one that carries specific details and isn’t just another generic USRA loco. Even if some third world factory worker is getting 50 cents a day to assemble the loco, it takes a skilled toolmaker who earns much more than that to make the molds and dies to make all those detail parts.
–Randy
The Athearn paciffic’s demise after announcement is hardly a unique, new, nor record-setting situation, Don, or even one limited to just the plastic end of the hobby.
As to a record holder in this area, back about 25 years ago NJ Custom Brass announced a CNJ Blue Comet, plus cars. Orders were taken and completion dates for the project given…which progressively moved further and further into the future. I had a standing order for that model for TEN YEARS, before NJ Custom Brass finally shut their doors! It was eventually produced by OMI, sans cars.
There are numerous similar stories to this going back as long as I’ve been in the hobby…and that’s a long time!
CNJ831
It really comes down to working capital - which apparently Broadway Limited, Rapido and possibly a few others don’t have.
If we look at Athearn as a whole, vapourware from them almost never happens, preorders are offered but the lack of them does not stop or delay projects, most projects once announced show up pretty much on time. Again, based on the range of product they offer I talking about everything, locos, freight cars, etc.
Athearn did say the loss of the 4-6-2 project was a vender problem, not a lack of preorders.
Same is largely true of MTH, Intermountain, and Atlas, although Atlas does seem to only produce slightly more product than what is presold in the locomotive department.
Bowser and ConCor have canceled or delayed a few projects for lack of interest, but, these were mostly VERY specialized offering.
But Broadway has so many canceled, delayed, maybe, on again, off again projects in their short history it has come to be expected. They were going to do B&O President Pacifics and USRA light Pacifics - both never showed - just two in a long list that obviously did not “presell” enough units.
Walthers/Proto also continues to bring products to market regardless of preorders but has rasied prices and reduced quantities compared to the Life Like days. I think it is clear Life Like “over produced” some of the early Proto2000 offerings.
I’m self employed, have been most of my life, if these companies don’t have the money to invest in this market, they need new owners, more investors or to go out of business - I’m not supporting them by promising to buy products sight unseen that might take years to show up.
Fact is Athearn and Bachmann STILL make the trains first, then offer them for sale - so does Intermountain, Walthers and for the most part so does Bowser. They will continue to get my business.
In my fleet of 120 plus locos only 9 are Broadway - when you combine their high prices, choice of models offered, my poor luck&nbs
Works for the freelancer who isn;t as concerned about a specific prototype. But the days f producing a PRR loco and slapping Sante Fe on it and callign it done are for the most part over. Even the RTR crowd is getting more savvy about what is prototypical and what is nowIf all you’re concerned about is soemthign era-approriate, the fact that the loco has UP style marker lights with NKP style number boards is not a big deal, so the Bachmann generics are exactly as ordered. Bachmann has gone more generic, while most everyone else has gone more specific - that Bachmann 2-8-0 they used to have, both in original and SPectrum versions, IS a Reading loco - but the Spectrum one was avilable with darn near every road name slapped on it EXCEPT Reading. The old cheapy one with the pancake motor, that one came decoreated for Reading.
Look at what DOESN’T get canceled by BLI - generic and/or famous locos. People buy them even if they don;t model that road. Like all the Big Boys. How many people buy Big Boys that don;t even model the UP? So what do we have from Broadway? PRR K4’s, NYC Hudons, and what some thought was a ringer, the Reading T1 - but that T1 was EVERYWHERE on the East Coast pullign the AFT and the Chessie STeam Specials. I doubt there are enough Reading modelers to justify the production, let alone a second run. But people who model the PRR can legitimately run them, as can nearly any Eastern road in the 70’s - and people outside of Reading fans know about them.
No, not everyone gives in to what hte popular press says we should all do - but a lot of peopel do, and the trend has been towards prototypical modeling and away from the freelancing and proto-lancing popular in the 70’s and 80’s. I don’t know how else a manufacturer can guage response withotu some sort of pre-order system, unless all they want to make ARE generics. BLI goes in for some very specific locos, some of which these very pages have been full of “why don’t they make a … ?” posts, but then they open preorder
Randy,
I have to disagree on a number of points:
The Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 is somewhat generic, but it is in no way related to their earlier Reading offering in the 80’s, and it IS based on a “catalog” design that was the basis for a number of different Baldwin 2-8-0’s. It does not have a Wootten firebox and was not based on the earlier model. AND MOST of the roadnames offered had something VERY similar to it. Except for the sand dome, it s a dead ringer for a IC loco.
The Bachmann 2-8-0 is without question the most generic SPECTRUM loco in their line - over the last 10 years or more.
The USRA Mountains, both light and heavy, were offered with very prototypical road specific details and only produced in roads that had them.
Same is true of the USRA 2-6-6-2, same is true of the current C&O H4, even if they did fudge on a few details.
The current regular line 2-8-4, offered in NKP, PM and C&O, while not “perfect” they have better “proto specific” details than MTH - by a long shot.
The long running 4-6-0 is correct in the Ma & Pa version, I can’t say about the others.
The 4-4-0 is also Ma & Pa correct - again I don’t follow the other roads offered, so I don’t know - or care.
The USRA light 2-10-2 is also detail correct for EVERY roadname offered.
The N&W J and PRR K4 are both respectable models detail/prototype wise and were offered in a number of variations those locos went through.
The Spectrum Russian Decopod also was proto correct in details and roadnames.
Are you looking at the same Bachmann/Spectrum products I am?
And what is wrong with their SP GS4? They have never offered it lettered B&O?
Looks to me like Bachmann has become MORE road specific, not less, since the 2-8-0 came out.
You want to know why I freelance - because I could see years ago that trying to accurately model any one railroad would be beyond the money and time that I woul
Still my favorite of all time.
Coming Soon!
Lima 1,000 HP Yard Switcher!
That was in 1977…
Back in the 1970s, Westside announced a series of freelanced brass locomotives. So far as I know, only one model in the series was made, a 2-10-0 called “The Brute”. And the only reason I know this engine was produced is because one was reviewed in one of the magazines. So far as I know, no other models in the series were ever produced. And I have yet to see an example on an hobby shop’s shelf, new or used.
Randy said:
" No, not everyone gives in to what hte popular press says we should all do - but a lot of peopel do, and the trend has been towards prototypical modeling and away from the freelancing and proto-lancing popular in the 70’s and 80’s. I don’t know how else a manufacturer can guage response withotu some sort of pre-order system, unless all they want to make ARE generics. BLI goes in for some very specific locos, some of which these very pages have been full of “why don’t they make a … ?” posts, but then they open preorders and 5 people respond. So apparantly people did NOT want that loco. If you are happy with the old AThearn Blue Boxes with over-wide hoods and the fact that they called a GP-7 with dynamic brakes a GP-9 then more power to you. But the average model railroader is getting a bit too sophisticated for that. Mainly because of the ease of information provided by the Internet “Hey my model of XYZ #211 doesn’t look anything like the pictures I found…”
Having tons of unsold inventory isn’t a sign of financial health. Not making products no one is willing to buy is, I submit, more financially responsible than just making things and HOPING they will sell."
Randy, a few more points from someone who got his first job in a hobby shop in 1970.
First we are WAY past the “Athearn wide hood GP7/9” - give it a rest.
Second, model train supplies, not just locomotives, have ALWAYS been produced in small limited run batches, it is a small industry.
BUT, back in the day the manufacturers did not try to hold us hostage by threatening to “never make any more” in an effort to sell the whole production run in ten minutes.
And margins were higher allowing slower turnover at all levels of distribution. This allowed and incouraged dealers/distributers/manufacturers to have INVENTORY. But we all wanted lower prices. Be carefull what you wish for.
Yet, dispite all this, stores like Star Hobby in Annapolis Maryland have large
[Y][swg]
Oh Oh Oh Brakie you just reminded me. Remember the GSB SD40-2 with bulldog chassis that was advertised so long it became a joke. Long after the GSB first ad Athearn announced theirs and beat them to the market.
BUT even at that it was the “Highliners” that took the cake. They had to have been advertised for three years before the “B” unit came out. I’m not certain I saw an “A” until Athearn started using them on the Genesis which was what? A decade later?
Well, having worked in the video game industry for the last 10 years and been laid off from 3 companies in those last 10 years, I hope to hell the hobby manufacturers don’t run their business model like the game industry. High employee burnout rate, high studio failure rates, and yes most games make their dates but at tremdous cost to the employees. Most of us are salaried so no overtime when the projects (inevitably) fall behind schedule and we a have to work 12 plus hour days for 6 months to get the product out for the magic holiday shopping season.
Chris
About the same time as the GSB SD40-2 was a company called D&H Hobbies who was going to produce an Alco RS-1, they purchased the back page on a number of magazines and took pre-orders etc and nothing was ever made!
Rick
I recall that. I even wrote to MR asking if it was vapourwear and I was assured that it was a genuine company and they were going to produce the RS-1.
My only personal experience with “vaporware” was only “sort of” vaporware…
I had pre-ordered the Tower 55 (T55) ES44DC in CN. T55 had produced their first ES44’s for UP and BNSF, and some of those fantasy schemes. Why on earth they released so many fantasy schemes before doing many of the actual RR schemes, I will never know. Anyways, there had been continuous delays with the CN models, because they are very unique from anyone else ES44DC’s (notably with the different windshields, nose contours, marker lights, anti-climbers, etc.). T55 had sent out a couple of updates with progress on the CN units, but it was always with the message that they were further delayed, with no real target release date in place.
Then, T55 went under and sold all their tooling to Athearn. So in the end, I got my deposit back from my dealer, and was left after several years of waiting with nothing to show for it.
I don’t mind waiting a long time for a product, as long as it does eventually get made, and is as expected. After that experience, the extra months beyond the original deadline waiting for Intermountain’s ES44DC’s doesn’t seem so bad, simply because I’m confident they will get made (plus, the reviews seem to be that they look and run better than the T55 units anyways). True, waiting months or years past the projected deadlines is irritating, but it’s better than never getting the model at all.