Hooray for monon &CNJ::: Gee, are there really other guys out there that feel their 4x8 empire is just fine and provides a lot of enjoyment. Are you as happy as others who think nothing of hoarding boxes and boxes of brass engines and hundreds of cars. Not enough is said of the enjoyment of small layouts compared to unlimited amounts spent by some model railroaders. I am very glad to see the responses to this forum, there may be more “small” layouts out there than most people realize. Yes, monon, just how do they afford it, I guess they have a lot of money.
Well with this idea of being rich to build a large layout, I have been in the hobby for almost 55 years now. I have been serious (as in building layouts) since 1978, so I have been collecting equipment for a long time.
It is all in where you put your priorities! (Using the $50,000 figure) that works out to $900 per year for me.
I am building my latest layout a little at a time. Also I do not have a lot of other activities (hunting, boating, summer homes, motorcycles, 4 wheelers, etc.) I have it narrowed down to a number of less expensive hobbies (if there is such a thing)!
And for any number of modelers that are into the motorcycles, hunting or boating I’ll bet that they have no problem going out and buy a new gun, boat, bike and yet think that the price of a new sound engine is too much!
It all in what you want to do and what is considered important – hunting, boating, bikes or model railroading, or spending every night at the pub!
Bob H – Clarion, PA
I, too, am a fan of small layouts. I will likely never have a large one in my life, because, truthfully, my interest in my hobbies comes in phases and waves. A small layout helps keep things under control, and doesn’t seem like work like a large layout would to me.
Alright, in MR’s defense, here are some BEAUTIFUL small layouts (in no particular order). I recommend checking out any of these articles from MR’s back issue department. These are ALL great articles…
2005, Feb, “Big City Layout in a Room” - one of my favorites. A small switching layout that is georgeos
1989, Oct - Bob Smaus first layout - a 3 x 11 or so switching layout - beautiful
Series starting in Dec 1990, “port of Los angeles” - Bob Smaus project layout - a module
GMR 2004 - “Busy mainline in a bedroom” - not tiny, but not big. Beautiful
2004, Sept, “A great shelf layout” on the cover - not the smallest, but pretty small
1996 - David Barrow’s “South Plains District” - a series on a small, affordable layout
1997 Jan, and 1998 May, “Kingsbury Branch” - beautiful N scale switching layout
1997 Aug, “Port Kelsey” - Tim Warris’ (AKA Fasttracks" switching layout) - awesome!
2005 April, “Urban railroading in a Gulf Coast Port” - bedroom sized layout - former layout of “MA&G” on this forum.
1998, Nov “O’dell traction co.”
1991, April, “Crown Mountain Division” - O scale narrow gauge shelf layout series
1989, Sept, “F & S Junction” - series on making a module
2003, Oct, “Roque Bluffs” series on creating a very small HO switching layout.
So basically, I’m saying MR does show some beautiful small layouts. My guess is they show what they get. If they got more material on nice small layouts, I bet they’d show it.
There have been several of the Yearly layout design mags (the name is escaping me at the moment) with lots of small layout plans.
And most years these are answered with a 4X8 project railroad (or two, or three). Almost every convention-themed project (maybe all) have been HO 4X8s.
Most of the other project railroads have been small layouts. If MR is trying to discourage 4X8s or small layouts, they’re doing a terrible job of it.
I think many people are missing a key element here. Most (not all) of the layouts that are featured in MR are not the guy’s first layout. Most (not all) people move away from the 4X8 form-factor after their first layout (sometimes for the reasons I’ve mentioned on my web page):
http://www.modelrail.us/id28.html
MRP has published two of my layout design articles on layouts 4X8 or smaller and a third on a design that grew from a 4X10. When a person with a well-done 4X8 shoots some decent pictures and writes a decent article, I’m pretty sure that it gets published. I don’t think they have a huge secret file of articles they have purchased on beautiful 4X8s that they keep under lock-and-key to extend some sinister “big DCC layouts only” conspiracy.
I don’t know about you all, but I don’t care to see poorly-done first-try layouts in the pages of MR. (I’ve got one of those going in my own garage, thanks very much – and it’s not my first). I really don’t think it’s only about size and scope, although there is some “wish book” factor of a large layout that is inspiring and undoubtedly helps sell magazines. It’s about good-looking scenes – which tend to be found on second or third layouts – which aren’t (usually) 4X8s.
The other really strange thing about these hand-wringing discussions is the inference that there is nothing that the builder of a small layout can g
Here’s what I think would be really fun to see in MR:
An ongoing series of articles following the construction of a new modestly-sized layout. Not a 4x8 project layout that lasts four or five issues, but a layout maybe three or four times that size with a separate column. We could follow the author’s thought process, explore his track plan alternatives along with him, see the layout space develop, watch benchwork & wiring & scenery go in, the whole nine yards.
Sounds like a good idea. This could easily be added to David Popp’s “Step by Step” that has been running in MR as a specific column since (I think) 2004 and is focused (mostly) on his growing N scale Naugatuck Valley New Haven layout (January, 2003 MR). A greater focus on the overall layout as it develops and not only each individual project would be a nice addition. The earlier articles (before the series) had a nice overall view.
Regards,
Byron
I would love to see more features on smaller layouts. It’s a dream to have a large layout that fills the basement, but family/financial constraints just don’t allow it.
I would have to think that most model railroaders have small layouts. Has a survey every been done to find out?
As for DCC. It’s the future now! I currently only have simply DC running on my layout and only run a single engine at anyone time. I’ve asked Santa for a DCC system for Christmas. I think it would be awesome to just sit a second loco on the rails and have it stay there while I run another one, actually running two or more simultaneously would be out of this world for me!
Trevor
Well, MR has recognized the fact of space and/or time limitations dictates a modest size for most MRRs and (as noted above) has run a steady stream of articles.
As for how do they do it w/ a megalayout, for myself I’ve built a RR that has about 1700 ft. of track w/ 227 switches (it’s virtually all terminal facilities). I started in 1975 by puting up a 25 X 25 building (and I mean that, after a contractor put in the foundation, I took Skil saw and hammer in hand and put up the building).After trackage metastisized to where the original building had no more room, I put up a 12 X 24 extension (this time, including the foundation). In short, I did it bit by bit over a 40 year period. Some aspects of it I did 2 or 3 times before I got it right.
That said, the most beautifuly detailed MRR I’ve ever seen was in the den of a friend and occupied a shelf about a foot wide and 8 or 10 ft long. It was Colo, Midland prototype and represented a western town’s main st. w/ the RR running down it and was an exquisite jewel. Given time, talent and inclination almost anything is possible.
Good thread guys!
So much of popular culture is about envy. It doesn’t matter if it is “This Old House” or any of the renovation and decorating shows, or the Martha Stewart show, or even the cooking shows. Come to think of it, look at things like “Monster Garage”, “American Chopper” and others of that ilk. Is all about money and stuff. “He who dies witht he most ‘insert thing here’ wins!”
And when it comes to our hobbies, the same thing applies. I sail, on a friends boat, but if I were to buy a boat it would probably be a 24 or 27 footer possibly as much as thirty years old. or more. The magazine writers only seem to want to play with the ridiculous toys of the rich and famous. Of course it gets us to buy the mags (well, not this sceptic!) because we all really want to see just what the biggest toy is all about. I also used to be a radio amateur (ham for the Americans), but to me the fun was building stuff, not ogling the latest multi-thousand dollar wonder that I would never be able to oafford. But to hams home-brewing (build-it-yourself) is not sexy. So I got disheartened and gave it up.
What I specifically like about railweoad modelling is that scratchbuilding is sexy! Sure you can buy a complete layout, but in reality most people build their own, do it their way, and do it on a budget. So I can build things myself and not be considered eccentric! But of course, being North America, the magazine editors have a sizeist thing. Big must be better isn’t it? Every now and again they throw in a smaller layout to appease the letter writers, but the reality is that for them, big sells. if people weren’t envious of the big layout they wouldn’t buy the mags.
To me, even a 4x8 is huge! My basement is only 13ft wide (yes, I do live in a house, not a garage!) and in the length of it I have to fit in storage, boiler, water heater, a bathroom, workshop area, playroom, art and craft area and all the rest. So maybe the biggest layout that this house will ever see is about 3x
I don’t have the time, money, or space to build a large layout - that is why I joined a club. Personally, I like the large layout articles. I like to see photos of long trains on long straight main lines. Smaller layout articles don’t hold my interest that much.
To each his own. . .
One thing many of us “common folk” may not realize, is that these guys with the huge layouts often need a crew of at least two other people to help operate AND maintain their empire. I don’t have that problem on my humble pike![:D]
Yes Ken, part of the problem of the large layout. Personally I want to keep my lyouts small enough that it can be a family thing and that things will move quickly enough to keep everybody happy.
Our current project, “The Pricess Brenda Railroad” for my five year old daughter is proving to be immense fun. All of us are involved in it. But it is a project that needs to be finished in months, not years, if she is to be kept interested. And then I can see a time in a couple of tears when we will retire that layout and do something new. But that is what works for this family.
We have a friend here in town with a “whole basement” HO layout. Sadly his modelling partner has died, his family have no interest, and he relies on people coming to visit to be able to do anything. Two days ago we took a tiny little 2x4 ft N scale layout with a single loop and two little industrial areas to him. It has some very basic scenery. Today his wife called to say thank you. He has it set up in the living room and apparently plays with it till after midnight. You see, he can barely walk down the stairs to his big layout now. And to make it even better, he is near his wife who can look after him, he doesn’t have to fight with the stairs, or the maintenance headache of a big layout.
What is even more fun is that he has mastered DCC (using one of my home built controllers and two NCE decoder equipped locos) already! According to his wife he sits there with a smile form ear to ear and chuckling demonicaly at all the things he can do on this layout that he cant on the big one.
His big layout was, and in fact still is, an amazing thing. My daughter and I go over and help him run
I completely agree that i’d like to see more of the little guys.
Though I still use DC, i aspire to use DCC, especially on a small layout, even more than a large layout, because that means I can run multiple locos at the same time without worrying about block limits, judging that trains would be very close to eachother
- I think a good mix of large and small is a good idea. I get a lot of inspiration and ideas from all sizes of layouts.
- DCC is the best thing to happen in the hobby since electricity. Try it on somebodies layout and see if it’s for you.
- Most everyone has been in this boat, me certainly. Now an empty nester who has waited 40 years to do it, I’m building my dream. Patience.
I think it is important for each of us to challenge our abilties from time to time, and for us to strive to do the most and best that we can whenever we put out minds to something. For those who do that to earning money, and the to spending it, good for them for all of the “ridiculous toys” that they buy. I figure it is gainful employment for those who manufacture those toys; it feeds families.
For the test of we mere mortals, whatever you do, the same rule applies. Do the most and the best that you can with what you have on hand. For some, that will be the 4X8, maybe less, maybe much more.
There is room for all kinds in this hobby, so I do agree that MR might consider helping those more modest layouts to get designed and built.
I would think that for a 4x8 layout to make it into MR it would have to be perfect. I say this because MR needs four good shots and that works out to covering the whole layout. With a larger layout you can pick and choose the best scenes and the angle. With a 4x8, any shot you take will have the backside of another shot–so it has to be good from all angles. You can’t hide the rough edges as well.
Factor in what Byron was saying about 4x8’s tending to be people’s first layout (because the graduate to a (perhaps) more efficient layout (not necessarily larger), and you can see there might not be a lot for MR to work with.
Good Thread
One supporter of modest size layouts on the MR staff is David Popp. I had an interesting discussion with him about I. Rice’s designs at Chantilly. Many of the largest layouts are really privately owned clubs which are necessary to get around the operator and maintenance demands on the owner.
A modest size layout has a lot going for it, especially if it is to be operated and maintained by one (or two) people. If I were starting over I’d be in DCC too. But now there is only me to be the engineer and I can only run one train at a time anyway (and enjoy it). I also don’t want to rebuild all those turnouts to prevent shorting.
Something no one has mentioned is the layout purpose. Specifically, whose dream are you building? Clubs, private or not require you to buy into someone else’s interests, although they do provide socialization if you are lacking that element elsewhere in your life.
I hope MR continues to publish articles on smaller layouts, especially those based on modelgenic prototypes. May be this thread will encourage that.
Happy Railroading,
Ernie C
Well cold hard facts…MR basically has the same type of large layouts simply because modelers will want to build a bigger layout just to keep up with the MR layouts …By reading these replies I see MR constant pushing of DCC is working but,I don’t believe its as popular as many claim on forums…You see there are other ways to operate sound and one can still buy DCC ready locomotives.Of course MRC is still producing power packs.
I have DCC but,will not be using it on the small layout I am building…I will be using my old MRC CM20 instead…[:D]
For everyone out there who like me can’t afford to buy heaps(the last train item I bought was 5months ago!), the more time you spend wanting it, the more enjoyment you get out of it! my theory[#dots]
The problem with the small layouts is that they fini***hem to quickly in the mag, so we read it in 20min, are bored, and go read the article about the big layout, study that for 1h, and feel better! If they spent more time doing the detail(into stuff like how to set the scene) on the smaller layout, it would be better, otherwise it is just track, rock, buildings out of a box, put DCC on it, presto, you call it a layout! About 10years ago they did a good one on the WC, anyone remember that one!!![soapbox][banghead][banghead][banghead]
Here, Here for this post! Size really does’t matter in model railroading. (unlike when woman lie and say it doesn’t,(not that I have that problem))[:D] Lets face it. Big expecive looking layouts sell big expencive looking train stuff. Kalmbach is a bussiness trying to raise advertising income.Nothing wrong with a bussiness catering to it’s high dollar customers. I still say some of the best looking layouts I’ve seen are “small”. All kinds of concentrated detail in one little package.(sweet)