Victorian Era

Thanks everyone for your advice and guidance. As stated in my first post, I was targeting the 1890’s, but it appears I should shift my target to 1907 because more products for that era are available. In 1907 the Missouri River flooded and wiped out the shops, turntables, and anything else that could be demolished including cars and engines to a lesser extent.

I’ll have to see what was going on around 1907, which isn’t exactly the era I wanted to model, but it may have to do for now. I could easily jump back 10 or perhaps 20 years by simply swapping out locomotives and cars because the structures didn’t change much over that period.

Thanks again everyone.

An alterative is On30, the equipment goes on about the same radius track as HO. The main thing is that most rolling stock from the pre 1900s has truss rods and may or may not have air brakes. I modeled in HO pre 1900 for many years. I used Juneco kits (wood) for box cars, flats and gons. I beleive LaBelle still makes some equipment that is suitable. Most rolling stock has to be kits, some are craftsman, more difficult but look great. Check swap meets and shows for built up rolling stock. I usually found some at most shows.

Dave

Another alternative is to use Bachmann On30 rolling stock for S standard gauge. They aren’t exact but the baxcar is about 34’ long, a little wide at 9’6", and about the height of a USRA boxcar - others are similar… Replace the ladders and grab irons and modify the trucks and you’re good to go. At least one person is reported to have converted the Bachmann 2-6-0 to S standard gauge.

Enjoy

Paul

You might want to check out Don Ball’s site. He models 1895.

http://www.sandcrr.com/

And this one:

Craig Bisgeier’s Housatonic site: http://www.housatonicrr.com/

Andre

it started long before Roundhouse got into the act, back when (for example) Laconia made the Sierra coach and combine (prototype 1902) and called it “Old Time.” Don’t forget Central Valley’s Central Pacific California Fast Freight Line as a 36’ car with air brakes and knuckle couplers. Even Edwin P Alexander couldn’t keep his eras straight, building a Grant 2-4-2 and lettering it US Military RR (prototype built 1870) and then putting it in his book on Civil War Railroads and Models

All that aside, the Victorian era has many advantages: Shorter trains; smaller towns; small equipment looks ok on our tighter curves and pigmy sized; lots of scratchbuilding; great variety in fallen flags. Disadvantages: lots of scratchbuilding; scale rail yields poor electrical performance (scale rail would be code 40 and code 55); not much in the way of locomotives or rolling stock prior to 1890;

I protolance model the 1890-1910 era.

I was going to suggest both of those! Great sites!

Chris

This site might have suitable engine crews. I by all mine through him

http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/YBSfigures.htm

Here is an example of a circa 1900 60 ton truss rod flatcar with load I am building. Maybe half scratch built with Tichy details and Bitter Creek trucks. Long way to go to finish. It uses four arch bar trucks. A on line company will make it available as a kit this year.

You have to do a some research and buy suitable books. Some books can be found in libraries.

I found the photo of the car in White’s, The American Freight Car. It is copyrighted so I cannot post the photo.

There is a nice Yahoo Early Rail group modeling the era but I hesitate to suggest Yahoo Groups anymore. Spammers and hackers have figured out the different Yahoo groups and I get a lot in my Yahoo email spam folder whenever I post a message there. I use a Linux operating system so no issues with possible viruses.

Rich

There’s an article on building this car (or a similar one) with this load in MR’s

Enjoy

Paul

Here are comparison photos of the Spectrum 4-4-0 and Roundhouse 4-4-0.

The Roundhouse 4-4-0, 2-6-0, 2-8-0 all have identical boilers and tenders. Loco and tender light fixtures will vary.

The Roundhouse pulls a little more because of traction tires. The Roundhouse tenders pickup track power from all eight wheels, plus drivers.

The Spectrums pickup from drivers also but only four wheels on the tenders.

Rich

Glad to have you aboard the forum!

You have picked a very interesting location for your modeling–that Burlington bridge across the Mighty Mo at that location is indeed a magnificant structure. Unfortunately at the same time you have really picked a quandry-producer for your choice of eras.

In the era specified by your posting Burlington was using 4-4-0s, 2-6-0s, and 2-8-0s. I’m reasonably sure that almost any 4-4-0 on the market would be reasonably close to Burlington’s specifications. I don’t know who has Moguls (2-6-0) on the market but Burlington’s of that era were using 64" drivers–according to Kalmbach’s Guide to North American Steam Locomotives in 1900 Burlington’s West Burlington shops built the premier Prairie-type (2-6-2) locomotive by extending the frame of one of those 64"-drivered Moguls to accomodate a two wheel trailing truck. Consolidation’s (2-8-0) of that era were using 57" drivers and I suspect that any Consolidation you are going to find on the market nowadays is going to have 63 inches. Getting an acceptable steam locomotive may amount to a make-do situation.

Your big problem is going to be rolling stock; I will admit that as an N-Scaler I don’t really pay an awful lot of attention to HO-Scale availability but I’m sure that I would probably have noticed any line which offered products from that era. When I got in the hobby in the early '60s there were more products available from that era; I don’t recall having seen a feature in the hobby press dealing with 19th Century modeling in a long, long, long time.

Again, welcome, and the best of luck in your endeavors!

Another good source of information on that period is the Clover House dry transfer catalogue. It not only has diagrams of cars of that period, but notes the specific years the lettering would be seen.

www.cloverhouse.com

BTW In the fifties very few people modelled the fifties, the most common era was the 1920’s-30’s. Even when I started in HO in 1971 most modellers were all-steam. In the thirties when model railroading really got going, a lot of those early hobbyists were old enough to remember the 1890-1900 era and so ‘turn of the century’ models were common. Of course back then it was more about building models and seeing if you could get them to run well, layouts were generally built by clubs and were usually fairly generic as to time and location.

In the UK the most common period has seemed to be the “Between the Wars” period of the twenties and thirties for a long time, though as here I’m sure younger people entering the hobby are more interested in more recent trains. Victorian era modellers are more common in Britain I think too…of course as OO modellers they have an advantage - their trains run on HO track but are about 12% bigger in linear scale. (4mm = 1 ft in OO vs 3.5mm = 1 ft in HO.)

Come to think of it, I believe we have a forum member who is modelling a US railroad in the Victorian era using OO trains…[:)]

Keep in mind if you go to say 1907 that cars and engines run a long time, you’d still be seeing cars and engines from the 1870’s-80’s running in 1907.

The often made claim that there is little rolling stock available for 19th Century modeling is only true with regard to ready-to-run equipment. For those willing to build wooden or resin kits, there has never been a better time than the present to take up early railroad modeling. Take a look at all that is listed on the Early Rail site’s freight car list: http://www.earlyrail.org/freight-cars.html . And here are two more manufacturers not even listed there:

Bitter Creek (http://www.bittercreekmodels.com/CARKIT.html)

REM’s Railroad Models (http://www.remsmodels.com/HOKits.html)

True, much less is currently available when it comes to motive power. But a lot of what has been produced in the past can be found used. For a list of what to look for check the ERLOCOLIST1.XLS file on the Early Rail file page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarlyRail/files/ .

Voyager

You can go from a 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 (or 2-8-8-0) to switcher by removing the pilot truck, real railroads did it all the time.

But the 4 wheel pilot trucks carried too much weight.

Well, not exactly, Stix. Your statement doesn’t take into account what locomotive models were to be had at the time. What you see in way of hobbyist’s choice of eras during the 1950’s was more a reflection of what was available in the way of model kits than a matter of real hobbyists’ preference.

Up through the mid 1950’s there was only a very limited selection of diesel locomotives available in HO. Most of the manufacturers were still concentrating on producing mainly 1920’s-30’s styled steam (although Mantua did have a small roster of vintage locomotives in addition to its regular line). Penn Line, John English, Bowser, Mantua and a few others were providing the majority of locomotives for the hobby and although many hobbyists modified them, they were still limited by what the kit loco orginally represented. It wasn’t until around 1960 and later (Athearn’s famous plastic F-7 didn’t appear until 1956) that diesels were really well enough represented in diversity that hobbyists could truly model a representation of the “transition era” for many railroads.

Likewise, during the 1950’s the average age of modelers was, unlike today, quite young (the average being just 31!), so most probably wished they could model contemporary railroading but there just wasn’t the equipment available to allow this. Y

While true, such 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 models will not be representative, even as stand-ins, for most as-built 6 and 8 coupled locomotives of the late 19th century.

CNJ831

One question–since it wouldn’t even qualify as a stand in, then what, pray tell, can a person do if there are really no small steam of that era to be had?[:-^] Would one be able to, theoretically at least, scratchbuild one that would fit the as-built state?

Well…the OP cited that he was interested in vintage locos with an 0-4-0, 0-6-0 and 4-4-0 wheel arrangements. While there are some reasonably suitable 4-4-0’s around today, the same can not be said for either of the first two, except for maybe the little ex-Mantua camelbacks. A lot depends on just what RR you model as to what might or might not work.

During the 50’s and 60’s there were a number of small, vintage, steamers available that have long since vanished from the scene. Mantua’s Eight-Ball Mogul, if re-worked and detailed, is a reasonable stand-in for a period 0-6-0 when the lead truck is removed, plus being remotored and additional pickups added, as would be perhaps half a dozen other small, better detailed, brass imports of obviously higher quality from the same period. I’ve always been particularly fond of the little 2-6-2T “convertible” loco (the owner can vary the wheel arrangement various ways) offered by Gem, LMB, et al. during 60’s. Subsequently LMB alone offered it with footboards, instead of spoked pilots, making it more suitable for use as a small switcher. Further, LMB also brought in a somewhat larger “suburban” commuter, or Forney-type, engine from the late 19th century. Such locos

I suspect re how many people were modelling the 1950’s in the 1950’s, you’d find it kind of a “chicken and egg” issue. If you asked modellers why they modelled the steam era, they might say because there weren’t a lot of ‘modern’ diesels available, so they buy steam. If you ask the manufacturers why they don’t make more diesels, they’d probably say because steam engines are what everyone is buying. [:)]

I wonder how common 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 engines would have been c.1885?? It seems to me that railroads just used older engines for switching then. I remember seeing pics of Great Northen using an 2-8-0 with the pilot axle removed as a switcher c. 1900 in one of my old GN books. My impression has been that railroads generally didn’t buy engines specifically designed as switchers in any great numbers until around 1900 or so…and when they did, it was the 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 type, with 0-8-0s coming along around say 1910-15??

And how does one become accomplished? By practicing that thing called scratchbuilding—

It is related to the ever popular question of teenagers the world over when it comes to getting their first job. How does one become an ‘X’ when one does not have the experience? By starting someplace–maybe not related but it gets you in the ground floor. Scratchbuilding then has something of a ground floor called small buildings et cetera–[:)][:)]. I’m starting to scratch together, even if the dang thing becomes a mere static display, a 2-6-0.[:-,] I found I have accumulated enough brass pieces, frames, wheelsets, motors and such that I could conceivably toss something that looks like it may work—that we’ll see[:-^][X-)]

Although harder to find than they once were, you can still find steam engine kits from Mantua, Bowser and MDC around. Learning how to put the parts together would give you an insight into how down the road you could do a kitbash or even a scratchbuilt engine. I know taking apart a couple of old Mantua RTR engines to add a can motor, add some details, adding a new tender etc. and decorating the resulting engine gave me a lot of valuable experience.