My PCM Y6-b that ran for over 200 hours with out a hick up, died last winter. When it went around a turn I could see a spark from the pilot gab irons to the walk way by the boiler. It got worse and finally would just shut down the booster. With the main line being 62 feet and say 15 laps in a hour X 200 = 35.76 real miles. More than likely more than that.
I sent it into BLI for repairs, Larry at BLI replaced the rear engine and sent it back. It came back with the same problem, did not make it 4 feet before it shut down the booster. It only cost $20.00 in shipping and 2 months! I called Larry, he does all the Y6-b repairs and offered to try again and shipping would be on them. What made me sick was when he told me " I have seen this problem before, and have never been able to fix it but I will give it another try". He would give me a new one, but they don’t have any left. They would give me credit, but not for the full retail of $700.00. Hum, I did not pay $700.00, but how much of a credit?
So I decide to fix it my self.
I hate to say it because this will sound like I am bad mouthing BLI, but this is not my first rodeo when it comes to fixing BLI and PCM steam engines. Normally it because I don’t wait 2 months to get it back.
I was happy to see the Y6-b is very easy to take a part. Pop of the center dome, pull the screw and free up the lower cab grab irons and the shell is off.
Plugs to the board are easy to get to. I unscrewed the PC board, used needle nose to work the plugs off. Pop the rear tower gear cover then pulled the worm gear. Rear engine is held in places with a screw, yank it and rear engine was off. Flip the boiler over and this is what I found.
BTW, the Paragon 2 version of the Y6b is due out in a few months according to a post by Matt Williamson on the BLI forum. We’ll both be able to pick up another one of these truly excellent HO engines.
And great job cudaken, I coudn’t be happier for you.
Norfolk and Western is my favorite railroad tied with the PRR, I would love to get the Y6b someday. I used to have the Class A by blue line, but it had loads of problems which were later fixed. I didn’t like the blue line version though, really wanted the paragon, so I sold it back to my hobby shop for an extremely low price. I should have just kept it.
This news about Paragon 2 coming out with an articulated Norfolk and Western steamer is great, maybe MTH will release one soon with glowing green classification lights, just like their o gauge version. Still, I would go for the Broadway Limited one at this point.
Glad to hear you got it fixed. I think the problem is exactly what fellow forum members told you to look for - a short between the frame and drivetrain since the short was occurring on curves and not on straight track. With the number of hours you have on the engine, the wear (spelled w-e-a-r, not w-a-r-e) around the motor and frame should be expected. I think a better fix would have been to disassemble everything down to the frame and grind or file away a bit of the frame where the paint was worn off instead of coating with liquid tape. One would expect the liquid tape to eventually wear off over time also ending back where you started. I think the other root cause of this could be running a long locomotive of rather tight radius curves or rough, poor trackwork causing the mechanism to rub on the frame. Just a guess, but I think highly probable.
Wow. Nice diligence in finding the problem. Have you let BLI know that you found the issue and explained to them your fix? Heck, maybe it will improve their quality control.
Hello good job Ken. Feels good to fix something that has been giving you so much trouble don’t it. I think Silver Pilot is right you should file the spots down that would be better then the liquid tape. Tell Larry at BLI and send him the pics it may help him on the next one. Have a nice day Frank
Silver Pilot, far as my spelling, well it is not my strong point. But, I do try to get it right so you don’t need a Cuda Ken Decoder Ring.
If I knew what I what I was going to find I would have done the repairs different. I would have rather used a nylon or steel washer than the paper Athearns. I would have filed down the front engine mounting point so it was flat. But, with only the Athearn washers I did not want to stack them to thick.
Far as grinding metal off the Y6-b, heck no. Point is they should not be touching. Now that there is no rubbing the liquid electrical tape will not rub off.
Far as running to long of a engine on to tight of turns, the Y6-b is not that long. OK, its not a 0-6-0 but it is not my Big Boy either. Y-6b is just a little longer than my M1 A.
Terry (C&O) next thing will be to remap your old decoder, I need working lights on the Big Boy! In fact Terry, because of you, I got off my dead butt and fixed the Y6. I had forgotten how great the Y6-b sounded till I posted the video of it. Then, when I got Big Boy going with your Loksound decoder, well off the RIP track it came.
Next project will be better speakers for my QSI BLI steam fleet. They sound real bad now compared to my PCM with Lok decoders.
This pic illustrates what I was talking about. Notice the wear on the lower left side of the plate of the drivetrain at the very left edge of the picture. Those are the steam cylinders extending off the edge of the picture. There is no way that the wear shown could be caused by general use of the loco and it rubbing against something as the wheelset pivots through a curve. This wear is on the bottom of the plate (or top since its hard to tell the orientation), not the sides or the edges. It looks like it has been caused by rubbing (quite hard) against something. My only guess would be from uneven track, something like incorrectly joined track, high frogs, large frog flangeways or guardrails on turnouts causing the wheelset to bounce and rock violently while running at a fairly high rate of speed.
As for removing some of the metal where the shorting has been occurring, consider that the reason its shorting is because the two pieces were rubbing, wearing away the paint working as insulation. Your fix was to apply a liquid insulation which is thicker than the paint. The cause of the problem still exists - all you did was put a band-aid in the symptom without solving the root cause of the problem - either rou
Silver Pilot, the problem took 200 hours to happen. What changed in 200 hours of use? Cast boiler did not get thicker. If it was my track was causing the engine to hit the boiler the paint would have worn through way quicker than 200 hours. Real problem was the boiler and engines came closer to each other. The cause was there was no lube at the metal to metal contact point. Look at the mounting point of the front engine again.
If that mounting point shows that much ware, what does the inside contact point look like in the chassis? Liquid electrical was used because I had it with me. (I work on my trains at work) If I had my engine black paint at work I could have used it. Engines are no longer rubbing the boiler.
Grinding metal off would have been the band aid. Getting the height of the boiler is the cure. To keep it from happing, little lube from BLI /PCM would have kept this posting from ever coming up.
Good detective work, Ken. If I ever get one of these locos I’m applying a healthy dab of Labelle 106 on those white metal mounting bosses before I do anything else. Not that I torture test my locos like you do… [swg]
I think the washers that you used are actually fiber. They should be plenty sturdy to use as shims, and they will prevent direct metal to metal contact. As long as it isn’t an electrical contact point, they should do fine.
Now see how long it takes to wear through the flanges. [;)]
Good job
Is the Y6b a 2-6-6-2? If so, would it be made like my Bachmann spectrum and be likely to have the same problems? Also I was looking at my loco and it appears to represent ALCO manufacture. Am I correct?
congratulations. i know this is a load off your mind. when things like our hobbies get to be a big pain then it makes everyday life a giant pain.
a while back, i remarked that the repair technicians were not the same prisoners and children that built these things in the first place but now it looks like they may have gone to the same school.
you have now had so much interaction with the repair department that you know who they are. that is frightening. like when the dealers and pit bosses started calling me by name on sight and offering me a free dinner, i knew i was spending too much time playing black jack at the casino. well at least i could try to eat a couple hundred dollars worth of shrimp and get even that way.
despite all their efforts ( real or imaginary) i wonder if you were not a victim of “stonewalling” it is a common tactic in business today. just let the customer bang his head on the rock long enough and he will quit bothering you.
I have been following this thread, nice work. It makes it 5 times nicer when you fix something like that yourself. Remember when I posted that my OMI Brass Challenger with the 2 Turbine Tenders wouldn’t go around a left hand curve. Brian at OMI could do nothing about it. Those engines are meant to be showed and really not ran. For almost $3000.00 it better run. It turned out to be something as small as a very small steam pipe rubbing the inside of a wheel and shorting out. Thats all it was to fix. It took a club member to find that one though. But now tackling other small problems won’t seem so bad for you.
Yankee Flyer, good chances you would not have the same problem with your Bachmann. One of the reasons I had the problem besides the lack of lube and 200 hours of run time is the PCM is die cast metal. With out putting it on the scales I would have to guess it weights in around 2.5 pounds. You could check and see how yours engines hook to the chassis. If there is solid pivot point like a pin or a screw then lube is a good idea. If the engines are held on with a clip that goes to the tower gear and then to the Chassis like a Athearn Blue Box, more than likely it will never be a problem.
Far as knowing the BLI repair guys by there name, well if BLI and PCM spent a little more $ on lube good chances I would not know there names. 50% of my failures has been do to a dry something.
I said at one point they replaces parts, not fix things. I posted that when I first got the Y6-b back with the same problem I sent it in for and I fixed. Then I got thinking about why they may do it that way. If you took your new car in for warranty repairs say for a bad spark plug wire. They wrapped the bad spot with electrical tap, miss is gone but what would you think of the tape when you saw it? Bet a few four letter words would be exchanged!
Most people who would send in the there engines for warranty repair would expect them back in new like condition. If you are that type of person, what would you think if you found Athearn Washers in your $700.00 steam engine? I will call Larry Monday and tell him how to fix the problem when or if he comes across it again.
Yes, it does feel good to fix the problem, but I still rather not had the problem.
I have been Model Rail Roading for 4 years now. When I first joined this great site I knew nothing and buying use stuff of E-Bay and having problems with them.
Nice Job Kuda Ken. You tackled it like a true gearhead… gotta love it. Also, that was a fantastic write up and great job on the pictures. Very well documented. No doubt, that will save some one else some frustration some day. I would also call BLI ad let them know how you fixed it. I am sure they could use it as well. Take care.
