Hey everyone. I was just wondering if there is any videos of coal mines being switched anywhere so that you can see how loads and empties are handled under the tipple, etc. I already have a bunch of coal hauling layout videos (GMR videos of Allegheny Midland, Don Cassler’s M&K Division of B&O, and Jim Herzog’s Reading, V&O Afton Division Finale) and none of them showed any operation of coal tipples. The only thing that came close was watching the Coal Fork Shifter shove empties under the prep plant, but you dont see it finish doing so. Then you just see it backing down the branchline. Thats it.
Can anyone help me? I’ve read the operation segment of the Coal Fork Extension series, but its so hard to actually visualize what Tony is telling you.
Or can someone give a basic description, starting with an empty tipple? Something like:
There are a number of threads on this forum that explain with a series of images just how a mine is switched.
The goal is very simple. Take the loaded cars away and form it a outbound train, Put the empties behind the tipple where they may be drifted down via handbrake and gravity to be loaded.
A variety of runarounds and escape tracks are used so that the engine can lightly get to the cars.
At the end, the caboose will be allowed to drift downhill after the train and couple on as the whole thing leaves.
What part of the switching operation are you having trouble understanding? Its no different than spotting any other industry, actually easier since there are no “spots”. You just put all the empties on one side of the tipple and remove the loads. How you do that is directly related to the size of the operation and the track arrangement.
First off you don’t start with an empty tipple. There will be loads on the loaded side.
The order of the switching depends entirely on the track arrangement and the size of the operation. If you have a coal mine on your layout post a diagram of it and the associated main line/sidings, plus a description of what the trains do (do they switch only that mine or do they switch other mines too) and maybe we can suggest how you switch it.
but doesn’t a mine have to start somewhere? Or do they actually have hoppers on-hand already for when it opens for business? Either way, theres got to be a point where you bring the first empties to it.
The main example I’ve been trying to understand is the Wheeling Steel #9 tipple on the Coal Fork Extension, because thats the tipple Tony mainly talks about in the issue of MR describing the CFE’s operations.
OK, that would cover the first switch in 1853 when the mine opened. I thought you might be interested in the hundreds of thousands of switches they recieved since then.
It really doesn’t matter. You put the empties on one side of the loading tipple and then pull the loads from the other. There may be different track arrangements and operating arrangements (whether or not the train serves only that mine, whether or not the train turns at the mile, whether or not the mine is on its own branch or is served directly off the main, etc) that affect the details, but its no different than any other industry.
…and so what’s the question? Shove empties into track. Uncouple engine. No pick up. Depart station.
Coal mining is normally a 24x7 operation (unless its a very small, very low production mine), so the object is to keep a continuous supply of empties at the mine so they can continue to load out coal. You never want to leave the mine with no empties to load. No empties = mine shutdown. So technically the answer to your question is yes, they had empties spotted when they opened for business, because if they didn’t they couldn’t put the coal they mined anyplace. If you are filling buckets of water with a hose, do you need a bucket in place before your turn on the water or do you turn on the water and then go looking for a bucket? There is typically minimal storage capacity at the mine. The exception is a modern flood loader where they load an entire 19000 ton coal train in less than an hour. They normally have storage for a couple trains worth of coal because the coal train can load faster than th
Local saying, “Pull and supply” pretty well summarizes what it’s all about. As previous posters suggest, every mine has different ways of doing it. The key with a mine shifter is to make things as simple as possible. Ideal way is to have gravity help you; push the mts in and let the loads come to you.
Small mines were/are a different situation. I recalll being on shifters where the mine was basically a siding with a switch at each end. Pull by, pick up the loads going one way (i.e. downhill), take the loads to the yard, drop them, pick up mts and then pull by on the way back and set them out. Kind of makes sensse because you don’t have to do a lot of backing.Example of this was on the C&O Piney Branch between Raleigh and Quinnimont. It is like a chess game in some ways. Mines in Winding Gulf were bigger with a lot more switching which involved running around cuts of cars, etc. BTW, cab can move around all over the train. Flood loading is, of course, whole different situation.
This video might help you…I have to admit I have the video but haven’t watched it for a while so I’m not sure if it will answer your specific questions or not:
I know traditionally in iron ore railroading, the process starts with the mining companies needing empties, rather than how many loads are needed at the other end. When they’re running low on empty ore cars, the mining companies contact the railroad (Missabe, Great Northern) who brings them 30-40 empty ore cars from the marshalling yards in Hibbing, Virginia, Biwabik etc. and take the loaded cars back to be made up into longer trains (150-200 cars) to be taken to the ore docks in Superior, Duluth or Two Harbors. (This may be different in recent years with solid blocks of taconite cars and such.)