I was flipping through the recent Walthers flyer that came in the mail today and saw some 46’ gondolas advertised. That got me thinking of the two I purchased when I first got into the hobby back in 2004.
While I thought the gondolas looked good, I was not particularly impressed with the fact that they didn’t negotiate R22 and < curves very well. (Same went for a couple of Walthers cabooses.) As it turned out, there was interference between the truck and the sill on the gondolas and the truck and the side steps on the caboose. A little carving with an X-acto knife helped but didn’t completely eliminate the problem.
Because of the above, I have not purchased any Walthers rolling stock since then. I was just curious if they had addressed the interference problem with the gondolas and cabooses and if this was also an issue on other rolling stock of theirs.
Unfortunately that’s the price we pay for prototypically dimensioned rolling stock. Can be a bit frustrating as a lot of us use 22" and 24" radius curves.
Believe it or not, I ran into the same problem with the Walthers’ wooden’ Rio Grande cabooses, and my minimum radius is 34" I had to do quite a bit of carving under the steps to get the trucks to swivel properly, even on THAT wide a radius. And it was either the Walthers, or search around for a used brass model probably in the neighborhood of $200 or so, if I wanted to have an ‘actual’ Rio Grande caboose. I’ve got 4 of the Walthers, and I had to adjust every one of them.
If you don’t mind, I’ll mention the passenger equipment.
All though installing handrails on them can be a bit of a hassle, I like Walthers older run Budd & PS units. I’ve had to make adjustments to them as well so they can negotiate 22" curves. Yes, I know that’s not realistic, but when you’re limited on space you have to work with what you have.
Modelers expect scale fidelity, then when they get it, their still dissatisfied! With the scale dimensions of the equipment, it shouldn’t be expected to negotiate non-scale curves. We get what we ask for!
I was just curious if they had addressed the interference problem with the gondolas and cabooses and if this was also an issue on other rolling stock of theirs.
Tom,I have several of Walthers tank cars,3 65’ mill gon,4 centerbeams,4 50’ high cube “paper service” boxcars,3 60’ boxcars and 2 of the newer NYC style CR sidebay caboose…All but one centerbeam operates well at the club.
The trouble with the centerbeam was the car drag as if the handbrake was set…I replaced the plastic 36" wheels with metal 33" wheels and that fixed the problem.Apparently the 36" wheels was rubbing on the bolster…I tried the easy way and just added a KD washer but,that didn’t help.
I will mention I bought that car several years ago (98/99?) and the other three I picked up last year has given me no problems.
I really liked Walther’s “White Box Kits” and have built many of them! I considered them to be a step or two above the Athearn Blue Box Kits. Sad to see that Walthers offers no rolling stock kits and in fact changed all the Life Like Proto 2000 kits to RTR when they bought Life Like out of this line.
I’ve been a kit builder since the '50s, and began with Athearns in 1960. I’ve amassed a sizeable collection of RR cars, with about 20 freight and 20 passenger being “RTR”. These range from BLI to Athearn for the freights, and all Walthers for the passenger cars. Some were quite expensive.
OK, with that background, I will stick my head out and say that I’ve yet to find a “RTR” car that truly was Ready to Run. ALL of them needed some kind of help or the other. From having to oil axles (Walthers), trim underpinings to allow running on true 26 inch curves, replacing unreliable couplers, putting wheelsets in gauge, etc., all have needed some help.
Now maybe that means I am too picky or anal, but my feeling is that others have similar experiences. All that adds up to why I still prefer kits…
There are several brands that requires nothing more then changing out the KD wanna bes for KD or Walthers Protomax II coupler…
There are some cars that won’t accept a standard KD coupler because the coupler box is to narrow.[banghead] so,you get the joy of re engineering the coupler box or finding a kimichi rigged method.
As I see it there are three issues with a kit: building it and finishing it according to the instructions; seeing if it runs as a practical matter on the layout (proper weight, coupler height, interference of wheels with underframe, etc.), and weathering.
The interesting thing is that for many guys they take up those three issues in exactly that order. But over time you learn that those are not or should not be sequential steps. So for example when I start a kit I weigh the parts before assembly because if the kit is under weight (or more rarely, overweight) now is the time to address it. That is the first thing I do. In fact sometimes I do that without beginning the kit and simply leave a note in the box about the tested overall weight.
Similarly for many kits if you intend to weather the car, before assembly may be the best time to thoroughly wash the body ends and roof and do initial weathering. Once those delicate grab irons, stirrup steps, and tack boards are applied, any serious cleaning can cause damage. And weathering methods that involve actual physical action on the car such as chalks or powdered pastels can send details flying. There is quite a bit that can be done about weathering BEFORE the first part is attached to anything and you are dealing with a body and roof and perhaps separate ends. A bit of touchup after assembly may or may not be in order.
And it is often possible to test coupler height and interference of wheels and underframe by simply temporarily attaching the trucks and couplers to the car and testing it out, even if you then disassemble it because those are later steps in the proper sequence.
And when I wrote about finishing a car according to its instructions, it is interesting how many assembled kits from years gone by have been bought at swap meets, only to learn that the original builder left out all the air brake details that often are still sitting unused in the
Tom, a friend had a couple of those cabooses and the problem is quite easily fixed by cutting the frame on both sides of both bolsters: cut near the bolsters on the side nearest the couplers, and a little farther away from the bolsters towards the centre of the car. (That distance should be apparent if you have the car in front of you - while I did the modifications, the cars aren’t here for me to check.) Then all that’s needed is to rotate the cut-out bolsters so that the longer part of the frame faces the ends of the car - no need to carve steps or otherwise alter the appearance.
I appreciate the responses so far, everyone. I’ve already made the modifications to the said models. I was just curious if Walthers ever addressed the interference issue by modifying the molds so that their newer offerings didn’t suffer the same problem.
I have over 100 pieces of rolling stock (mostly kits and some RTRs ) from other manufacturers and the 4 or 5 Walthers cars I have are the only ones that suffer this malady; hence why I’ve never bought any more.
I was disappointed to see that Walthers no longer offers their freight cars as kits, both those which were originally Walthers kits and those of companies absorbed into the Walthers fold. These include the old Train Miniature cars and those from the former LifeLike Proto-series - I generally buy these as used items, often needing some repair or other work, and they can be had at very reasonable prices.
Just today, I picked up three tank cars from my LHS. I had attempted to order the Walthers car which was supposedly part of the Train Miniature line-up (but not released by them), but ended up ordering three Tichy kits. The old TM car was offered only as r-t-r and was more expensive than the much better-detailed Tichy kits.
My favourites in the Walthers line were their 50’ doubledoor automobile boxcar (with optional end doors):
…and their nicely-done GSC flatcar, with optional bulkhead ends:
I used the bulkhead ends on Athearn 50’ flatcars, after altering the cars to ride lower, and then adding wood decks:
This Walthers express reefer was a r-t-r car, but required some modifications to the roof, ends, and underbody:
This Pennsy RPO was purchased last year as an undecorated kit.
my comment is not about the radius problem but the kit problem.outside of westerfield,sushine,funaro & cammerlango,tichy,branchline and a few others feature kits.while this sounds like an extensive list,very few of the lesser expensive companys do it.i would hope the pendelum will eventualy swing back. tuxedo
I remember those Walthers 50’ automobile boxcar kits with affection–I built a small fleet of them. And the GSC 53’ flats, also. Very nicely weighted cars, run very well.
As to the caboose–I remember seeing an article (was it yours?) on re-adjusting the bolsters to let the trucks clear the steps. Oddly enough, the prototype Rio Grande wood caboose had truck spacing that put part of the truck under the steps, and that’s what Walthers modeled, without, I think, considering sharper curves on most modeler’s layouts. So I had a choice–adust the bolsters, which would give the trucks non-prototypical spacing, or carve a little out from the back of the steps to let the truck swing just enough. I opted for the step-carving, because one of the things that attracted me to the Walthers car in the first place was the prototypical spacing of the trucks. But I was really surprised when the car turned out to be just a tad tight for even a 34" radius.
Funny you should mention Walthers “White Box” kits. Over the last two days, I have completed three of them, (and an Accurail). While the completed cars may not be Tangent or Exactrail “perfect”, they are nice cars that built well, and look good on the railroad. They were purchased either during the late 1980s or early 1990s, and have sat in a storage box until now. In each case, I used the micro mark wheel tool to improve “rollability”, changing the wheels in one case, added Kadee #5s, and 1 oz of stick on weight to the oem weight.
It’s a shame that the Walthers kits are no longer available.
I picked up nine of the boxcars, undec and unbuilt, at $4.00 apiece - seems nobody else wanted them. [swg] I lettered them all for my own road, and built several with operating doors, as shown previously. As for the flatcars, I like the fact that they ride low like the real ones. I added even more weight to mine, and at about 6oz. each, I can put them at the front of even a long train (over 70 cars) without fear:
While I’m modelling the mid-to-late '30s, which somewhat limits my choices in rolling stock, a lot of the Walthers “White Box” kits with which I’m familiar are the former Train Miniature cars.
This tank car, picked up recently at a train show for $4.00, is one. Lettering is from Black Cat:
Some other TM/Walthers cars, all modified to some degree. Lettering is either Champ decals or C-D-S dry transfers:
Even their version of Pennsy’s ubiquitous X-29, wi
Tichy has some nice stuff don’t they? It is easy to overlook their complete line when it is just a list in a catalog rather than a photo showing the part.
As to the Walthers 53’ flatcar, I improved the weight of mine (not quite to NMRA standards but close, and they track well due to low center of gravity) by replacing the stock sheet steel weight with a pure sheet lead of the same size. That left some room for at least a partial simulation of the brake gear and piping. I was also fortunate to lay in a supply of the laser cut wood deck replacement parts for the plastic decking before the part was discontinued.
I see that Walthers has announced what appears to be an improved version of the 53 foot flatcar, with die cast frame, grab irons, and weathered deck, as a RTR car. Scroll down in their latest sales flyer:
I do not mean to start the kit versus RTR debate on this thread – what kind of fool do you take me for [hey that was a rhetorical question!] – but I will say that when they were selling off a batch of P2K kits at their salesroom in Milwaukee at absurdly attractive prices, the things sat there. I have seen the same situation at Lombard Hobbies’ booth at Trainfest. The P2K kits at nearly giveaway prices languished; P2K RTR would sell. Walthers tends to go where their inventory system tells them to go and I suspect they are not alone in that.
