Walthers has announced another run of the Super Chief–and clearly states in their announcement that the plated finish of the new cars will match the plated finish of the recently delivered El Capitan.
The discussion should really be that simple, period.
However, the usual “experts” (we’ll use that term very loosely here) over on the posted the link to Walthers’ announcement on their forum, and failed to read or grasp the details in the linked page–and have proceeded to bash Walthers as a result.
Before we jump to conclusions and outright bash a manufacturer (in this case for having what the forum members assume to be yet a different plated finish from previous offerings) it would at least be helpful to read all the language in the manufacturer’s product announcement.
I am not employed by any manufacturer, but I believe we owe them at least that much fairness and common decency–to get the facts correct before we make disparaging online remarks–or better yet, endeavor to keep comments constructive and useful.
I now yield my soapbox; I’m done here–there’s nothing more for me to say.
Everyone, not just model railroaders, is quick to bash, anything and everything, and don’t let facts get in the way of a a good rant [(-D] I think they just crave attention badly.
Which usually why I skim over 98% of the junk posted and focus on the 2%.
I wouldn’t concern yourself about it, just like I could care less about who or who doesn’t run DC or DCC.
The forum I was referring to, whose name was indeed removed by our moderators here (and I understand and can accept that)–the topic was posted by one of the regulars–who after additional explanation is rather ticked off that the new cars won’t match original Super Chief cars originally released in unplated, but painted, finish, way back in 2000, as well as at least one more recent run that was plated.
Yet after online discussions seemingly ad nauseum about how plated cars are supposed to appear to look like real stainless–it seems Walthers chose to match the most recent finish, that of the El Capitan–which from various other topics online seems to be the consensus finish that “looks best” or captures real stainless “the best”.
It just would seem sensible that people should be happy and thankful Walthers is trying to improve while also trying to reach a “standard” finish. Also, within any real train, certainly not all stainless cars had the same degree of polish for a variety of reasons.
Perhaps I’m just vindictive, or perhaps I just like pointing out when I perceive that certain people only want to run down a given manufacturer’s product. If the very same cars were released as “Genesis” series cars, I’m quite sure some of the folks complaining would be quiet and content with them–because they have Genesis up on some pedestal above the other guys.
My point to all this is when we in the online community (and I’ll include myself there since I’m certainly far from perfect) decide to trash a product from manufacturer A or B (name does not matter) it actually can have real negative consequences–that in the long run needlessly or unjustifiably cost that manufacturer sales–and then us future projects (by logical extension).
I’m not trying to start an argument with you because I agree with your basic premise that we should not bash manufacturers without havings our facts straight.
But, that is not exactly what happened in this case.
My reference in my earlier reply was to the thread on another forum that you referred to, so I was referring to the correct forum.
The reference in the thread on that forum was made by a “New Member” who referred to a “third finish”. The original post was by a “Master Member” who made no reference to a third finish. What he initially said was that Walthers was doing another run of the Super Chief and merely listed the identity of the cars and the prices. That was it.
Later in that thread, the OP replied to the new member’s assertion of a third finish by pointing out that the plated finish of the Super Chief didn’t match the plating of the El Capitan. So, if the plating of the re-released Super Chief matches the plating of the El Capitan, the plating on the re-release won’t match the plating on t
Some people will never be happy with a product no matter how ‘perfect’ it is when compared to prototype. Yet these same people say the way the product should look is like the ‘imperfect’ run that came before using this ‘imperfect’ run as a comparison for perfection. I know that sounds stupid but it’s what I see many times. If the previous run was incorrect why is it now used as an example of what the new run should be? Often times in prototype practice the same type rail car could vary in appearance from one manufacturer to another resulting in a train with cars that had a slightly different or at times a marked difference in appearance yet this was considered normal. Put the same differences in appearance into a model run or series of runs and nobody is happy. But on the flip side a train of all identically clad cars suddenly looks to be off or boring because there’s no difference. One of my friends models Amtrak and he had a habit of making up the trains with cars that all had the same type finish. Looks real good when it’s sitting still but when it’s running one car blurs into the next unless there’s some kind of difference. Needless to say he’s not happy with that because it looks ‘off’. One day he was looking at some photos of Amtrak cars and it suddenly hit him that many of the cars though the same in appearance had minute differences. When he set up his models the same way and ran the train it suddenly looked to him to be correct. Why? Because it’s what he saw when he looked at the real trains. My point in all this is that no matter how ‘perfect’ or ‘correct’ the cars are there will always be those ,and not just a few, who will see them as incorrect and who will definitely see a model train comprised of cars with different finishes as being non-prototypical even though the real trains did consist of cars with these differences. Many times it comes down to ‘NOT ON MY LAYOUT!’.
When Walthers did their last Super Chief plated run there was a lot of controversy on the finish. In fact they tweaked it mid-train! I own a set from that run and I’m happy with it. I also own the El Capitan, which looks better (an improvement). There was also backlash on the small production run, and those folks should be happy now.
Every time they re-run they also re-run painted cars to match the original set (check the announcements).
You are indeed correct the Original Poster in the other forum’s thread did not bash Walthers himself–however, subsequent posts specifically referred to the Walthers trains in such derogatory terms as “El Crapitan” etc.
If that isn’t bashing Walthers, well, then I’m not sure what is.
Thank you for a very well written response. Your opening several sentences were great!
So now people are using the very same “incorrect” finish they complained about–quite vociferously–in the past, as the “standard” that a new run should match.[:)]
John, I have to disagree with you, and it is too bad that a link to that thread on the other forum cannot be posted here so that people could more easily find and read the thread.
The reference you made to a guy who referred to the trains as El Crap and Stupid Chief also called his LHS guy a mope. Sure, that one guy chose to use derogatory terms but, interestingly, he,like most of the others participating in the thread, owns these cars in spite of their dissatisfaction with the finishes. Walthers is rarely mentioned in these various replies.
The complaints are not with Walthers, the company, per se. Rather, the complaints are directed at the different finishes making it impossible to match the Super Chief cars of the re-release with those cars from the first (and second) release.
I’m a member of that forum and I must say some has the tenancy to be huh,well,ahem outspoken and some times overboard with their huh,“acute” observations.
Still,that’s one of the better forums to gain knowledge on how accurate or inaccurate a model is but,still must be taken with some salt realizing some rip a good model over minor micky mouse issues that you can’t see anyway unless you use your optivisor and scale ruler…
Its not funny when we argue with each other about what is written on this Forum.
Arguing or having a discussion?
There’s nothing wrong with having a good discussion as long as it doesn’t turn personal and becomes ugly.
I’m thinking that this might be about time to lock up this thread.
The reason being that we do not need to be discussing what someone is saying on another forum…leave their arguments on that forum…no need in adding to it.[:D]