Hello.
What do you think about Walthers Super Chief cars? Are they 1:87 scale exactly? I’m defining a purchase order and, having seen them, I’ve decided to buy a pair…
Thank you for your kind answers.
I have 10 Super Chief Cars and they are great. I’m quite happy with them… They need to have wire details installed and car numbers or car names need to be applied with decals provided with each car.
They are a good representation of some of Santa Fe’s passenger equipment. They are going to be the next best thing to the more expensive brass passenger cars. The only problem is that they did not produce the correct 4-4-2 sleeper for the Walther’s set (ACF or Pullman Standard built “Regals”) or the ACF built 10-6 “Palm” sleepers, but that is a whole other subject. The “Hotevilla” 4-4-2s did not run in the Super Chief in the era that Walthers was trying to represent. The Hotevillas were replaced by newer equipment on the Super Chief by then.
All in all, these cars are a safe bet if you want some good looking Santa Fe passenger cars.
The Super Chief cars are very good and are worth every penny of their cost. The are as close to scale as you can get in HO for the Santa Fe cars with some minor changes to the train consist over the years.
I have the latest Coach Yard Brass train with full interiors and when the Pleasure Dome is compared directly to the Walthers model, the plastic model has better detail than the brass model. The brass model which cost over ten time more per car is missing all of the rivet detail around the dome windows. The Walthers car has those details and much more. Even the interior of the dome car is very good.
The downside of the Walthers cars are they are not plated to look like stainless steel and they need tinted window glazing installed. Thei is not a hard task since it can be installed on the inside of the installed glazing and really made a big difference in the overall looks.
If you pull the trains with a set of the early F3’s ( #16 to #21) that used silver paint instead of the stainless, they look even better since they match.
The Walthers cars are a great buy.
Thank You, Heartland Division CB&Q, csmith9474 and CAZEPHYR for your answers.
Regarding CaZEPHYR response, if I’ve well realized…Super Chief cars “are not plated to look like stainless steel and they needed tinted window glazing installed…” Ok, however, observing here european models, plating often turns in a simple silvery paint… only Roco, for french '50s revolutionary loco which in 1955 reached the 331 Km/h world speed record, has realized a true plated moulding…
[#ditto] To CAZephyr’s post.
The Walthers streamlined passenger cars are beautifully crafted and raised the bar for plastic streamliners.
Make sure though that you get rid of the EZmate couplers and install Kadees. Check each car’s height as well.
Consider painting the interiors. Really makes a difference. Removing the roof is easy by gently squeezing the sides. Some modelers complain that the plastic tabs break, however, proceeding slowly is very helpful.
As I mentioned on another thread, to avoid squealing axles it helps greatly to apply a tiny dab of Moly Magic ( Molybdenum) in each journal. The axles come off by loosening the screws on the bottom side of the trucks. For the Walthers drop in lighting kits this is very good stuff since Moly contains graphite (which helps with electrical conductivity).
As for the issue of “plating” for a stainless steel effect… I’ve posted many times that I’ve had great success with the Alclad II. With one coat of clear, it will retain it’s finish for a long time. http://www.alclad2.com/index2.html
IMHO, Floquil and Model Masters metalizing finishes don’t come anywhere close to the Alclad! It is excellent stuff, a bit expensive but worth it. You must have a good quality airbrush that can use a #1 sized needle (fine).
I will post my photos soon on a separate thread.
I forgot to mention I like the Walthers lighting kits, too. My Super Chief is hauled by a 4-unit F-3 of the Stewart brand. All 4 units have Kato drives. The 4 units and the 10 Walthers cars look impressive.
When I was young I traveled with our family between CHicago and Los Angeles via the SUper Chief. I will always remember the pre-Amtrak Super Chief.
I have both the brass and Walthers Santa Fe cars to compare side by side but the Walthers cars are really nice overall and as Antonio has stated, they need to have to interiors painted also if you want to detail them correctly. I have not done this at this point, but it would really make them look nice and adding passengers then would set them off.
I did take several of the coaches apart to paint. The problem with removing the glazing to paint the cars is the Glazing is glued in. I did not have great success with removing the glazing without some damage to it. Maybe there is a better way, but masking the glazing and painting the cars is not an option for me. I tried using the foil to cover the sides. It worked fairly well but is very expensive and if any of the cars get into a side swipe wreck, the foil will be damaged also.
Kadee’s are a must for great operation.
I finished my consolidated Super Chief/El Cap last year, and started with undecorated Walthers “Super Chief” cars. The glazing is not installed on the undecorated cars, so it makes life a lot easier. I painted the interiors and added Preiser seated passengers. I used Floquil “Bright Silver” and Microscale decals. I am about to start a late 50s Sunset Limited, and will be trying (for a second time) the Alclad that Antonio mentioned above. Starting with undec cars makes it a lot easier to add the finer details (at least in my opinion). Here are some pics…
With as easy as these cars roll, 4 powered units is way overkill. I pull a full consist Superchief (15 cars) with a Stewart ABBA set, but only two of the units are powered.
And another rabbit trail thought here. If one just buys a “set” of the Walthers cars a train does not contain near enought revenue cars for passengers. A “set” would only have two sleepers, and bunches of specialty cars. The number of passengers from two sleepers would only be enough to justify the other cars in the train.
Ditto on the comment to change the couplers. The ones that come from the factory will let go at the drop of a hat. This can be a problem on grades. I had the rear 9 cars decouple on a 2.5% grade and go shooting away. They roll so easy they were probably going 200 smph before I caught them. Fortunately the El Capitan was not on schedule and the main behind me was clear.
The question I have for the Superchief experts is the RPO. I know it was put on in La Junta, but haven’t been able to figure out if it was put onto eastbound or westbound trains. If I am running a train through Kansas I presume it does not have an RPO in the consist, while one running over Raton does?
The Wathers cars do roll great and your experience of some coming updone and rolling back was probably exciting at the time. Kadee’s Rule.
The paint does tend to look more like stainless since it is not so dull.
The web page below has lists of the cars for many different dates.
I’ll agree it’s overpwered with 4 kato drives. I got a deal on ebay at the time. I’ve often thought of swapping power chassis with dummy chassis from other Stewarts I have, but then those ABBA sets would be over powered, instead. At least my Super Chief will not stall on the layout!
Regards everybody, Garry
I wasn’t implying you should change, I just wanted ETR_500 (the original poster) to know he would not need that much oomph to move the train.
I did sort of what you were thinking. I bought a bunch of dummies and dummy chassis. I went through and de-powered about 1/3 of my fleet. ABA, ABB, ABBB, and ABBA sets now only have two powered units now. I never have trains longer than 55 cars anyway. I know they will pull more but 55 is my limit for two powered Stewarts. I did end up with a bunch more usable (assignable) locomotives.
TampAntonio:
As usual, meaningfull answers… but I have some questions:
- WHICH Alclad II finish do you use? 2. Being a Lacquer, doesn’t it CRAZE (melt) the plastic? 3. The instructions re application to different colored ‘base’ I found confusing .
I gather it’s a ‘translucent’ finish.
MOST brass cars come Nickel plated (not realistic). A CLEAR satin coat with a tinge of brown or red in it provided the most ‘Stainless’ effect I’ve seen - to date.
YOUR COMMENTS, please.
The paint is Alclad II Chrome. The Alclad II needs to be applied over a coat of gloss black paint. Also, on the ATSF Pleasure Dome, only the dome windows were tinted. The remaining windows were clear. the only lowlevel cars that had tinted windows were ATSF’s 2816 series Budd 48 seat coaches which Walthers produce but, incorrectly list as a 46 seat coach. Santa Fe’s low level coaches didn’t have a conductors desk.
Ch
Hello Don. [tup] Charlie was on the mark.
There is a great article in the July or August 2003 Model Railroader in which a modeler applied the Alclad II Chrome to a pair of RDCs. The results were incredibly realistic! Alclad II is available in Stainless Steel, but the Chrome, imho, gives a more realistic effect. The number is ALC 107 ( Don’t buy the Chrome that is for Lexan which is a different number).
Here’s the steps I took to metalize 3 HO Rivorossi passenger cars :
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I dunked the shells in a 91% alcohol bath. Paint came off in less than 5 minutes after scrubbing the shells with a tooth brush while they soaked. Afterwards I washed them with warm, soapy water.
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I airbrushed Scale Coat II Gloss Black onto the shells. The black must be glossy—(Engine Black will not work). Make certain that the finish IS smooth. Three thin coats is what I applied. I let the shells sit for several days. (best to put them in an area that will be dust free)
2a. OPTION: Apply a flat or semi-gloss black and then clear coat it. I’m a big believer in simplicity so though I normally u
CRAZING: Yes, it is possible if you are in a HURRY! Alclad is a “hot” lacquer and can attack poorly prepared plastic surfaces as well as Enamel that had not cured. The key to avoid crazing is to allow the black base to cure thoroughly. Also important is to wait patiently between Alclad Coats. I wait 5 minutes only because the room I spray in is warm. In cooler environments, 10 minutes or more is a very safe way to go.
Re: Nickel Plated and brass cars: I’ve noticed that Yellowish brown tinge on these cars. That’s why I like the Alclad so much as, imho, it is the most realistic effect I’ve seen and has no tinge to it, like the metalized BLI CZ cars do (though, they are gorgeous!).
I’ve experimented with Charcoal Black bases but so far, the Jet Black is the way to go. The Alclad reflects the base that is underneath it and gloss black is a virtual mirror.
Smitty,
Do the Walthers cars come with the window walkway bar? I don’t think they do, and if they don’t nice touch.
Are you using a drumhead and tail light on the last sleeper for your combined Super/El Cap? If so what are you using for a tail light?
I bet you are salivating over the new Athearn FP45s. Would work perfect for a late era combined train.
No, the bar is DA wire. If you want, I can see what size I used. I can’t remember off hand. I buy all my cars undec so I can install details like that without messing up factory paint. I think I mentioned before that the Walther’s cars get completely tore down and rebuilt.
I am gonna use the Tomar drumhead, whenever I get around to purchasing one and installing it. I am going to hang it off and end gate. I am using the TSP gates because you get both types in one pack. I also discovered that I can use them without gluing them in, so I can change up which cars are on the tail. This is using the American Limited diaphragms.
I can’t WAIT for the FP45s. I pre-ordered 2 of 'em and noticed a couple of days ago that Athearn is saying December now. Arggggggg.