I recently got 2 of Walthers (new) versions of EMC’s (EMD) ubiquitous switchers. I have one coupler that droops badly. I’ve shimmed it. I’ve loosened and tightened everything 2 or 3 times and the goofy thing still droops and won’t match up with the KD height gauge. I just read another post on non-Kadee couplers and was wondering if that was the problem. Do you folks think it’s just a matter of swapping out the coupler? Or is there more I should do? Thanks.
MC
MC.
I think the Walthers have accumate couplers but I’m not sure. The question that needs to be answered is it the coupler or engine body that is causing the droop. If you inspect the coupler, check to make sure the shaft is straight. If not you may be able to bend it up a little or just replace it with the proper KD. The other possibility is that the engine frame has gotten bent. You might also be able to bend it up a little BUT I think I would consider returning it if it looks like the frame is bent as that indicates some rough handling might have occurred and there could be other problems.
Thats the best I can do with the available info.
Marty C
Walther’s use’s ProtoMax coupler’s look almost identical to Kadee’s, metal and all. There may be something else wrong, like has been said, something maybe not be seated correctly. Is the shank bent?
Just got a SW-1 last week…DC version/DCC ready. Out of box, on layout…instant short. Checked whole engine on work bench and found that when it was assembled, they crossed the rear truck pick-up wires on the circuit board, corrected them and run’s like a swiss watch.
Good Luck on the coupler!
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
Hi, MC
I don’t have any additional suggestions besides what has been mentioned above but I’ll add that I tried to look into both of these extensive articles about the SW-1 in the Keystone Modeler:
In the #90 Autumn 2014 issue, Pg. 34 photo, I can see the front coupler sure looks lower than the adjoining flat car. Which one is correct? In any of the other photos the coupler seems to be securely supported with no sag.
I wanted to see if there were any detailed photos of the draft gear, which, alas, there isnt one that provides a good view but it sure looks like the coupler is securely mounted.
Can you see any gaps between the coupler box and the pilot? Sometimes the draft gear box has a plastic pin that is supposed to engage a hole in the frame. Does this seat correctly?
Since you have two engines and one of them is OK, can you detect any difference between the two? Photos would help…
Good Luck, Ed
A plug for the keystone modeler. It is free if you sign up for it and the society does not spam you. Some incredible modeling.
Replace that Walthers coupler with a Kadee, coupler box and all.
From my experience, I doubt that the frame is to blame. That is almost never the case. It is more likely the coupler itself, or the coupler box, or both.
Rich
KD’s can droop too, I’ve seen it plenty of times. My guess is the Walthers Protomax (a metal near copy of KD) is not to blame. I know many people hold KD in a high state of reverence so it’s easy to instantly blame the coupler if it’s not KD, but it’s probably more how it was mounted or the the draft gear box.
Your going to just have to examine how the coupler is mounted and try to find out what looks like the cause. Maybe disassembling the reassembling the coupler and box will improve things - if not, you may have to look into tweaking the mounting with a shim or filler inside the draft gear box, or possibly an offset shank replacement coupler. IOW, the usual suspects.
Plenty of times?
I don’t think so.
The tolerances on Kadee couplers and boxes are pretty tight, so it is rare to see a properly installed Kadee droop.
Rich
Swap couplers end for end.
Does the problem move? You have a bad coupler.
Does the problem stay on the same end? You have a draft gear or frame concern.
Take one of the centering spring pieces that comes with a Kadee #5 and clip off all the side pieces so that all you’ve got left is the base plate. Add that to the box. It will act as a very thin internal shim and will take up the space that’s causing the sagging.
Coupler boxes are made for #5s or their clones, including the centering spring. When you replace them with whisker couplers, sometimes the spaces are too large and you need to shim them just a bit.
Judging by your response its obvious we aren’t on the same page about the droop discussion.
OP needs to look at the cause of the drooping - is it due to the pocket, how it was assembled etc. Soo Line Jim’s suggestion of swapping one end for the other is a good starting point! The Protomax couplers are all metal and probably it’s not necessary to replace them.
WOW!!!
Conked out after I posted and woke up to 10, 12 answers. HUGE Thanks to everyone for answering. I can’t begin to respond to all of you. Okay, I could, I’m not gonna. Except to say I doubt it’s the frame, it hasn’t even been on the layout yet. Unless it came from the factory that way. I’ll inspect it closely tonight and post my findings. I’m pretty sure I have a bunch of #5s laying around.
I’ll see you all later tonight.
Mark
I’ve got two of these new-release Walthers SW1 (BN and GN). The couplers are .04" too low. This is because the coupler mount pad is (wait for it now…) .04" too low. The pad is not a separate piece; it’s part of the frame.
I shoved the coupler up as far as it would go, and picked up .03" of that. Which, depending, might be enough to suit you. So, that would be the shim route.
The proper way to go would be to mill off .04" of the frame. Need I go on?
The offset Kadee looks like it picks up .025", which doesn’t look like it’s enough. But it could also be combined with shimming, maybe. It would certainly help. But it looks totally unprototypical to me, so I REALLY don’t want to go this route.
It’s a problem I’m going to have to solve someday. As is Mark, apparently. And also, apparently, everyone else who bought these.
Ed
I have the Walther’s SW-1 and the coupler’s both end’s are a tad lower when hooked say to a Walther’s RS-2, BUT, In my opinion it is a moot point, they do not droop…they are just a tad lower. If You want to be a perfectionest, you would have to mill the coupler pocket out, or file the coupler shank thinner. I left the coupler’s on…because a Kadee will do the same thing and you really can’t tell the difference btwn a KD and the Protomax…so why change it. I run it all over the layout without a problem. The only thing I did is bend the trip pin/hose up a little more…but I do that to all my coupler’s anyway.
To me a coupler that droop’s…the Horizontal plane is changed, high at one end,where it mounts and low at the knuckle…these don’t do that…they are just lower, overall.
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
Ahhh… mounting bad too low. Yeah, then an offset KD sounds like it should be part of the solution, shimming or filing the rest. Thats not very good of Walthers to sell those switchers with proper coupler height.
For a start, is the coupler body or frame mounted? What type of cover does it have to secure the coupler? How much, if any vertical play is there? The Kadee coupler height gage checks the coupler for an exact 25/64ths from center of coupler to the railhead. From here then you can address how to solve the problem.
Check 7j43k’s post above: “the coupler mount pad is (wait for it now…) .04” too low. The pad is not a separate piece; it’s part of the frame."
There’s a coupler box of roughly the same size and shape of a typical Kadee.
As I said, the coupler will lift up .03" from its resting position.
As I said, the coupler is .04" too low.
Ed
Must have missed that. File and shim cover to raise, or as you “crindge”, bend the frame up! Yikes
I have one of the SW1s from the same run (MILW 1610, item #910-9203). Both couplers are low. The draft gear boxes are slippery engineering plastic, both top and bottom parts, and can be completely removed from the metal frame by unscrewing them. There is “slop” in the boxes allowing vertical deflection of the Protomax metal couplers.
Because this is a switcher, and coupler reliability is essential, the first thing I would do is swap out the stock couplers with Kadees. Adding a shim in the draft gear box under the coupler may help if there is still “slop” in vertical deflection, but that alone may not cure the height problem. If not, changing to a Kadee draft gear box may help. Otherwise you could file down the thickness of the upper portion of the stock draft gear box (i.e., the portion that fits against the frame), taking care to keep the result square and level.
– John