I can tell you that passenger trains picked up water from troughs through Ancora NJ midway between Camden and Atlantic City. I have heard that passengers were instructed to close their windows as they neared the pans so that they didn’t get soaked. The Pennsylvania RR museum in Strasburg, Lancaster County PA, has a section of pan on display and many of the tenders have scoops.
I’ve noticed that many of the HO models of USRA locomotives have tenders sporting the scoops, and this suggests to me that roads other than Pennsy, NYC, or SP used them (since as far as I know these roads did not use stock USRA machines).
Any other candidates for scooping, perhaps in the South?
Hi All,
The trackpans had long sloping ends which helped bring up the scoop. Some tenders had lever operated scoops while others had air operated scoops. Imagine the force exerted on the scoop while being pulled through the water at track speed, without the sloping ends it would be impossible to pull up the scoop. In the case of double headers the engines would split the pan, the trailing engine would scoop first and at the midpoint of the pan the lead engine would scoop, if the lead engine were to scoop first there would be little water for the trailing engine.
Michael
The troughs sloped upwards at the end slightly to stop the water running out, there was no end block so if you didn’t pick the scoop up it didnt hurt the trough but the next set of points[swithces ] would tear the scoop off. ex fireman LNER AND BR.
By the way the non stop Flying Scotsman would pick up 6 times between Kings Cross and Edinbrough.392 milesyou never forgot anyway as the tank was usually full and it only took a few seconds to travers the troughs
Were these throughs heated during the winter to keeep them from freezing? If so how? via a stationary boilers nearby and hot water tubes?
I recall reading that the P.O. Railway in France installed some water troughs between Paris and Bordeaux, but they were the only ones in France and they were not used any were else on the continent, only in Britain. BTW, i went to university at Huddersfield in the north of England. I steam days there were some water troughs not far from where i lived that were in a tunnel as it was the only strech of level track between Leeds and Manchester.
I believe I remember seeing them in England and Northern Ireland in the 1960’s - before dieselization. Just to set the record straight - the correct spelling is Great Britain, not Briton.
In the US, PRR-NYC-CNJ-RDG had at least one track pan apiece, and maybe B&O had one on the Phila-Washington line-- but that’s it. None west of Chicago or south of the Potomac.
Were there any west of Pittsburgh and Buffalo?
The ones in Wilmore, Pa on the Pennsy were heated…there was a small plant located trackside in Wilmore that provided steam heat for the troughs. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
That means somebody had to man the plant to provide the steam. Correct? I guess they were coal plants? Did they generate electric as well?
The N&W J’s used trough’s sometimes.
For those that have, or can borrow a copy of Triumph 1, Altoona to Picairn, by Charles S. Roberts, there is a pic of the Wilmore Pans and Pumping Station on pg 200. A brick powerhouse was built adjacent to the tracks and was used to pump water to the pans, as well as provide steam heat during the Winter.A reservoir at Wilmore was the supply of water as mentioned earlier. The pans at Wilmore were originally 1800 feet long, but were extended another 600 feet on two of the four mainline tracks…It does not mention what type of fuel the powerhouse used, I would imagine Coal…Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
“The N&W J’s used trough’s sometimes.”
I’ll bet not. If so, where? Can anyone find any mention in print anywhere?
The RR Museum of Pa in Strasburg had a map showing PRR water troughs when I was there last November. I can’t recall if it was just Pennsylvania or the whole PRR.
In UK there were many installations of water troughs. Without research I know of ‘West Coast Route’ say 390 miles long at four locations betweem London and Crewe. On the ‘East Coast Route’ I think there were similarly about three. The Great Western used them but not the Southern. If you want I can research and list. I used to spend many hours at Bushy Troughs on the WCR, 12 miles north of London, Euston. I was just a few feet from the track and enjoyed the frequent passage of fast and slow, passenger and freight trans collecting water on the move. The scoop needed lowering and lifting with skill. The fireman would need to be quick turning a screwed actuator. At commencement of the troughs the scoop would be quickly lowered energetically by the fireman who would then watch the tender water level gauge to estimate when to start lifting the scoop. If the lift was late then there would be an overflow, washing coal off the tender and soaking unwarned passengers in leading coach compartments. If there were two engines they would arrange to collect in turn, reqiring more skill and co-ordination between two firemen. The scoop was fitted with a deflector which assisted the passage of water into the scoop mouth. Water troughs were first used and invented by the London North Western Railway, a constituent of the WCR and at its time the largest Joint Stock Company in the world. On reflection I seem to remember a list of about twenty UK installations. Locomotives were fitted with large deflector plates protecting leading small non-driving wheels so that water from the collection activity did not wash lubricant from bearings. Diesels were fitted with steam heating boilers for train heating with water tanks. Early deliveries of some classes were fitted with scoops. I worked a lot on diesels but am unaware of the pick up equipment ever being used. Later deliveries came without the equipment and it was soon removed where fitted. Some eqipment and buildings associated with trough installation reman in place.
Vacole has given a fairly accurate descripition of water troughs(pans) in Great Britain. But, he was wrong in his description of the West Coast Royal Mail route as the WCR. The WCRM was formed by the independent railway companies LNWR and the Caledonian Railway of Scotland (CR) to run the postal service between London and Glasgow on their respective lines which connected at Carlisle near the English and Scotish border. In 1893 they used a joint passenger rolling stock to enable the change at Carlisle to be omitted. This rolling stock was called the WCJRS and comprised the first corridor fitted passenger carriages in the UK also dining and sleeping carriages were used. The LNWR and CR did not use the Pullman design of the US.
Jack London described in his novels about his hobo-years how the esperiences with water trouhs. although he had been warned by experienced hobos not to board the first freight car of a through freight, he did it. at a water trough, he first got a shower which was welcome in a hot night. but when the tender was full, he was soaked with water. eventually, the night got colder and he clothes were completely wet, but he coudn’t jump of the train because it was a through train that didn’t slow down for hours.
I don’t know whether it was in the same occasion he mentioned no other railroad had as little space to put the feet on as the PRR.
Of course, it’s a novel, not a newspaper-report. So I cannot exclude he exaggerated a little bit or even invented the story at all
I have a picture (now badly damaged) of a trough on the NYC (or Michigan Central) tracks near Chelsea, MI (west of Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti) taken in 1952 which includes a heating station for the water in the background.
Thanks to all for alot of great info on track pans. In particulat Townsend mentioned track pans in France wich I’ve never heard of. So I figure so far only Great Briton, USA, Canada and France had them.
Not all of the pans were heated. My grandmother was employed, here in Ontario, in the early part of the last century, to break the ice in the pan using an iron rod. It was hard, cold work but paid better than anything else that was available to women back then.