has someone try useing real wather for water falls or riversbhlack]
Yes about 20 years ago, and I mean for indoor HO, not my outdoor G. You must build the watercourse very carefuly and seal it water tight with epoxy or similar material. The water must be kept flowing with a small pump from a resevoir at the top and bottom of the watercourse. Add a few drops of chlorine every few days to keep mold from growing.
I have somewhere an article from the '80s in MR mag that shows how to do this and was the article that inspired me to try. Maybe if I have time I’ll dig through them, but I believe it was the Crown Mountain RR in O scale that had the how-to. Perhaps someone knows the year/month off hand.
The end result was passable, but I didn’t think worth the effort or maintenance. I’ve never done it since. It was a fun thing to do at the time, but it’s better in G scale with real fish[:D]
If you do find the article please pass it on by e-mail to me. I would like to have water in my new layout.rgorske@alltel.net
If you have a small fish pump filter, you might be able to find a way to mount it to filter the water and make it look like a waterfall or something. It could be done. Good luck!
I would try to avoid this. Like Tangerine Jack said, It can be done, but the maintenence would get old quick.
I have had fi***anks for years. At one time I had seven tanks running. I have found that the bigger the tank the easier it is to maintain. A small river on an HO layout would only require two or three cups of water. Maybe a little more if you have a big river. You would need to set up a filter with charcoal to reduce smells, a pump, and a water tight river bed. You would want to avoid tap water due to the added chlorine and other minerals that would leave deposits on your river bank. You would then get evaporation and even some small splashes from the current that could get on your tracks and trains.
I would also think that the splashes and realistic water movements would not be in HO scale.
Whatever you decide, Have fun. This can be done, and woudl present a real challenge to work through that could be very rewarding for a time.
The real problem with using real water in small scale is that flow rate doesn’t scale down. That wild, white-water rapid you’ve dreamed about ends up looking like a rain ruvulet - very disappointing for the amount of time, effort and money involved.
The same amount of money spent on non-liquid water will produce more aesthetically satisfying results, and wiping your stream or lake with a Swiffer pad is a lot less work and expense than maintaining a pump and filter.
Chuck
Real water is great - looks like h___ but its a great way to come up with real bugs and real mosquitos. And the scale is terrific!!! I keep having visions of a Japanese horror movie. The hobby press gets inquiries about this subject frequently - and their advise is usually to stay away from it.
I was touring a layout in San Diego some years ago and this discussion came up for who knows what reason. One of the other model rails in the room said that he had tried it on one of his previous pikes and that experience was enough for him. I don’t want to generate an Excedrin headaache and from all that I’ve read on the subject that’s what real water does.
John Allen years ago planned to use real water in the river on his Gorre and Dapheid, and real water in his seaport town of Port.
After doing the river and seeing what it did to the room humidity, not to mention the hassle of it all, he elected NOT to use real water at Port and recommended against using real water in general. Were he to do it over again, he said he would not use real water on a layout.
John used chemicals in his water to make it look blue and to discourage bugs from making it a permanent home … he used concrete to form the river bed and put it over an excavated dirt base in his basement. He put a drain and plumbing in place before concreting over it all, and then used a pump and a reservoir tank, making sure everything was watertight and would not leak.
Using real water is a lot of work and the effects do not scale well. Also consider the effects on room humidity, which can be considerable.
The humidity is a bigger problem than has been described here. Most modellers think that their problems with expansion ruining trackwork are temperature related, but I am inclined to doubt this.
I’ve had temperature related expansion problems exactly once in 20 years on construction sites, on a gymnasium. The biggest problem was due to the layout steel measuring tape getting bigger and smaller, not the wood. However, humidity and water issues can make wood swell up and double in size overnight. That happens all the time.
Avoid real water, or else avoid using wood for benchwork. The two really don’t mix very well.
back in the day not now though
Nothing looks less like real water than real water. You might get away with it for a small shallow pond but if you have moving water, it will not look right. Not only will the flow rate not be correct to scale, real water is just too clear. Rather than reflect light, it will be transparent. There are so many better ways to model water than using the real thing. My advice is to forget about it.