We need more small steam engines!

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I am amazed at the size of the steam engine models being produced. Look at the Pennsylvania RR I1sa 2-10-0 on the MR home page, it is a beautiful, but a really big engine. It seems like every Union Pacific and Pennsylvania engine ever built is being produced in plastic - all beautiful and fine runners but they are gigantic. How do they even fit on most layouts? I submit that we need more small plastic steam engines, more 0-6-0s, 4-4-0s, 4-6-0, and 2-8-0’s. but high quality and with modern detail. Only Bachmann has really come though and their Spectrum engines are excellent. My sound equipped 4-6-0 is probably the best running steam engine I have ever seen. Unfortunately, the Roundhouse engines are starting from such old kits that they are just not up to today’s standards. I just can’t believe that a good Harriman series steam engine wouldn’t sell. Maybe MTH will step up to the plate here. - Nevin

2

Take a look at the Proto Heritage Steam loco’s, I think they might be what your looking for. Lots of detail and very nice runnng.

3

I suspect they don’t, not realistically anyway. And for some reason, lots of steam fans seem to think they need multiple Challengers, Big Boys, Yellowstones, etc., all out of proportion to the numbers of smaller steam locos actually used by railroads.

4

Nevin,

This topic comes up several times/year. ATSF/PRR/UP are very popular roads and will get the most attention. Small steam usually has the following issues:

  • Nothing ‘generic’ - Most steam was custom built for each railroad, so there really were few ‘standard’ models until later years(like the USRA series). Hence, let’s build model of big steam for big railroads - It is what sells.

  • Many small steam engines have been hard to produce with sufficient weight to pull anything

That said, P2K has produced a USRA 0-6-0, and Bachmann/Spectrum has produced a very nice older 4-6-0 in a couple of versions, as well as a Baldwin 2-8-0, and modernized 4-4-0. All of these can be had sound equipped or converted with little work. I have one of the USRA 0-6-0’s - runs/sounds great. It does not pull much, but for a small yard engine it is great. I have a pair of the 2-8-0’s and they are super smooth(I installed Soundtraxx sound decoders in them years ago. I also have a ‘high boiler’ 4-6-0 and it runs very well(with a Soundtraxx decoder). The bottom line is that we have never had it so good for well detailed/great running steam models in HO. 20 years ago, the cheap AHM/IHC junk that could not pull itself up a grade was all that was available off the shelf. You had to do some serious assembly with Bowser or MDC kits if you wanted non-brass steam. Of course, I would love to see a C&NW R-1 4-6-0 in plastic, but I am a realist! Your idea of a good current technology Harriman 2-8-0 or 4-6-0 might sell. Maybe Athearn will re-issue an updated version of the old MDC/Roundhouse Harriman engines.

Jim

5

It is amazing, isn’t it. When I started in this hobby a few years back, the size of the layout room dictated the size of the layout trackplan, to a great extent. The size of the trackplan, especially the curves, dictated the size of the locomotives and rolling stock. Yes, you can run a Big Boy… I’m told… on 18 inch curves, though I’ve never seen it done. My layout has 22 inch curves and I do own a 2-6-6-4 NW and I do occasionally run it when I don’t care if I wipe out a few Super Trees on the curves… [:D] What’s a good tree here and there, we all have to make sacrifices sometimes. I love big diesels, like AC 6000’s and I’ve been known to say that if I had it all to do over again, no matter how much of the layout room I took up, all the curves would be 32 inches min. and I’d model Union Pacific. Is there an engine they never owned?

As it is, the best looking (as far as running) steamers I have are an 0-8-0 switcher, a Consolidated and a light Mikado. In the ‘looks right on the layout dept.’ I go down hill from there.

Jarrell

6

The new Roundhouse RTR engines are pretty good, although the Bachmann engines look better. The new Roundhouse have a much better drive than the old kits.

You are right that more early models are needed (and cars to go with them.)

7

As a small-layout guy (“To promote domestic tranquility,” as Thomas Jefferson wrote) I agree that the emphasis on large steam leaves many of out of the picture. Likewise, the beautiful Rapido passenger trains just won’t make it around my 18-inch curves.

But, I’ll chime in on behalf of the Proto Heritage engines. My 0-6-0 is a beauty. It looks, sounds and runs great. I don’t ask it to pull to much. If I needed more traction, I could add the traction tires that came with it. With all those wheels on the engine and the tender, the lost electrical pickup won’t be a problem.

My BLI Hudson 4-6-4 may not qualify as “small steam,” but it does the job on my layout. It will negotiate the 18-inch curves, thanks to an engine-tender drawbar design that allows either close or “not so close” coupling.

Does anyone have one of the Proto 0-8-0’s? Will it take 18-inch curves? If the new administration puts money in my pocket as part of an economic stimulus package, I feel it’s my patriotic duty to get one.

8

HEY!!! Stop picking in UP for all those big locos!!! [:(!] What they also had was a bunch of 0-6-0’s for switching!! [%-)] Years ago, they even had a few camelbacks!! [:O] Of course there’s also the #119 of Promentory fame!! [:)] OK, so I’m as guilty as anyone - I have a Challenger, BB, Veranda turbine, and a bunch of 6 axel diesels!! [:I] I agree with the above posters, we DO need more small steam!! [8D]

9

I have a Proto 2000 0-6-0 and it is a very fine locomotive. A little too big a 0-6-0 for my railroad but compared to most Proto 2000 engines which are articulateds it definitely qualifies as a small engine. It served well on my B&O layout. I have a Roundhouse 2-8-0 with a sound system in it that I have modified with new brass bells and whistles (literally and figuratively) and repainted as T&T #7. It looked good until the Bachmann 4-6-0 showed up and now it looks and runs like a 40 year old technology engine (which it is). I do want to remind everyone that PFM imported literally thousands of AT&SF 2-8-0’s over the decades so I think I can argue that small steam engines are still sellable. I would like to see Bachmann make a older version of their 4-4-0 as well as a smaller 2-8-0 in their Spectrum series. A Vanderbilt tender that works with the 4-6-0 would be nice too. - Nevin

10

I’m not sure why, but whenever the discussion of small steam comes up, most people ignore the smaller engines put out by IHC. I have a few… an 0-8-0, a 2-6-0, a modern 4-4-0, a few 2-8-0s and even some 2-8-2s. All of them run pretty well, are pretty good in the pulling department and certainly don’t break the bank at acquisition.

They don’t have sound but many of the newer ones are coming ready to pop in the sound decoders. They aren’t road specific but neither are many other engines that are being produced. All in all, they appear to be well worth the money I have invested in them.

dlm

11

I for one, would love to see MDC re-release their Harriman steamers with updated tooling and drive mechanisms. I have a couple of their older ones, a 2-8-0 and a 4-6-0 in SP, and they’re nice running little lokies with a little work. I know that MDC put out small locos in 0-6-0, 4-6-0, 4-4-2 and 2-8-0 configurations, and even a 2-6-2. And with those short little Vandy tenders, they’re pretty nice looking. And though they can be detailed with brass castings, it would be nice to see a more detailed model from MDC.

We can hope. [:P]

Tom [:)]

12

It’s probably too much to hope for, but with a new frame and the use of the 52" drivers underneath a Harriman style boiler, a neat 4-8-0 could be created which is pretty close to both the SP TW-8 and the NP class X.

Beats searching for a Max Gray or Westside TW-8 (and the bucks involved) or paying hefty bucks for a PFM NP class X.

Andre

13

I agree that with the availability of the dies that the Harriman series could be re-released. With the sad news of Mehano closure a reasonable priced steamengine may be a thing of the past.

14

I agree with the IHC engines. I just picked up a 2-6-0 Mogul in B&M livery from the local LHS ( that had to dust off the box ). Outside of brass IHC is the only manufacturer that is currently making the Mogul, I think. It’s not great in detail, but I plan on dropping in a Tsunami and it will look and run with my Connie and American. I like my Roundhouse 4-4-0, although the MRC decoder will need replacing soon. The Spectrum steamers are great. Mine is always a hit with family and friends.

15

Prototype variation seems to be one of the major causes for the lack of small steam engines compared to large. That was Bachmann’s excuse for not making a good 4-6-2, but wait! They do make a NYC Niagara, and a C&O 2-6-6-2, and a UP DDA40X, and an Amtrak E60CP, and quite a few others, and I’m sure that those big ones are far more expensive to make than smaller projects would be. Many people have repeatedly pointed out good examples of small to mid-sized steam engines that could be popular models.

Fortunately, there have been a lot of small steam engines made in the past, and any good modeler could modify one into whatever they wanted with the numerous amount of quality detail and repowering parts available. Even the old Rivarossi steam engines are good if you can tune 'em up right.

16

Small steam to me is:
Non-articulated locos with up to 6 total axles (without the tender) and no more than a 2-wheel trailing truck. So this would count Mikes, 10-wheelers, and Pacifics but not Mountains, Berks or Hudsons.

Of “quality” plastic small steam, there has been the following in the past few years:
Athearn - USRA light Pacific 4-6-2, USRA light Mikado 2-8-2
Roundhouse - USRA light Pacific 4-6-2, American 4-4-0, Mogul 2-6-0, Consolidation 2-8-0
Bachmann Spectrum - Decapod 2-10-0, 3-truck Shay, Ten Wheeler 4-6-0, 2-truck Climax, American 4-4-0, Consolidation 2-8-0, Pacific 4-6-2, 0-6-0T
Broadway Limited - USRA light Pacific 4-6-2, USRA heavy Mikado 2-8-2, USRA light Mikado
Proto 2000 - USRA 0-8-0, USRA 0-6-0

So that’s at least 19 different “quality” small steam engines that have come out recently. What more do you want?

Paul A. Cutler III

Weather Or No Go New Haven

17

Since the Spectrum sound equipped Ten Wheeler came out, I got the one that was on my wish list. I needed one for my branchline. My mainline won’t run anything smaller than a 2-8-0. I do agree there should be more availability in the smaller steam category factory sound. A 2-6-0 or 2-6-2 would be a nice addition.

18

I’d like to see Bachmann (or equivalent) do a logging 2-8-2 and maybe a logging 2-6-2. I had also wanted them to do a logging articulated, but I gave up, lucked out, and got a beautiful NWSL loco. Anyway, they would go with their Climax and Shay very nicely. Ed

19

And shays. Even mighty UP had some of the slowest steamers on the market.

20

What I want is to stop seeing a new Pennsy K4, Big Boy, Challenger, being released every couple of months. It seems like every time I turn around another manufacturer is releasing something else that’s already on the market.[banghead] Personnaly if I ran one of these companies, I’d be paying someone, or a couple of someone’s, to surf around this and other MRing forums to get a feel for what is desired. And then produce it. Just my [2c].