I have no idea what you are ( is,ps ,up.da) and so your input dont mean squat to me when you try telling someone to go get a pacifier, but that goes to show just how smart you are saying " I know it makes them a better target but in the long run, ( this is good) more fewer, ( did you go to school in the ghetto? just axe ya) your like the train masters who have no clue.
tell me how this is going to get More fewer people killed?
If the conductor is 30 cars from me what good is that vest to me?
If the conductor is following the rules and not in the gauge of the tracks how is a train going to hit him? will it see the vest and veer toward him?
if the conductor is doing things wrong how is the vest going to save his life? Is it like a cops bullet proff vest where railcars will bounce off him with out hurting him?
So maybe I actually know what I am talking about, do you? I understand it may be hard for you to actually get off you seat and see if the guy on the ground is still alive.
Hi-vis makes it easier to find the body when another idiot, probably someone like you, does something stupid.
Thanks for the grammar lesson. Now for your spelling lesson - proff? What’s that? Did you finish grade school?
so you think you want to run me down , not as easy as you think because it seems you have no idea how railroading works Nor how the real world works as proven by your statement that you are in industrial saftey,
See if i had to get off the engine to check on the guy on the ground, I know where to go because i know where he is working just like all the other engineers know where the conductor is. And ive never killed or hurt anyone working with me in switching moves, and the death rate of employees killed in switching moves are very low anyways.
Next problem you seem to have is thinking its the engineer is who causes these problem that just proves that you have no idea what your talking about again because we only move on the command of the conductor ( you remember him the guy your vest is supposed to save) if he stands there wanting to get run over then fine let it be. but the only stupid thing i see is a guy like you wanting to light up a man in the dark so he can be shot at will by the low lifes at night. more railroad deaths are done this way than by being run over.
As far as spelling goes anyone can hit a few keys wrong and it dont matter to me anyways. but when you try to come off as the smart guy with all the answers then say something as stupid as your statement was it just had to be pointed out, But instead of promoting your product saftey and use you choose to attack me and i didnt attack you but i would exspect no less out of a person like you. the moderators will let you get away with attacks on me but i am not allowed to say anything back. so flame away trust me as a railroader i am thick skinned.,
All things aside, I still see no valid reason why a vest should not be worn. Exactly how many times have you been shot at? And are the people around the yard that stupid that they cannot figure it out that gee, the cars are moving back and forth, maybe some one is there?
As far as a TM, are you that afraid of them? If you are not busting the rules, you should not fear that he is around. I know that when I have a worker who wears his PPE and takes care in what he is doing, I do not have to adult sit him. But my problem children, I will sit on to make sure things are done right.
There are yards by us (thank god I don’t work at them) where the RRers are told to not use their lanterns at night. You want to blend in to the machinery so the gang executing the guy just beyond the fence doesn’t see you.
Besides, aren’t we overdoing the high-vis vests a little though? Everyone is wearing them now. And if everyone is wearing them…doesn’t that make them pointless? I can see certain situations where a vest should be worn. Namely local jobs where you have to protect a lot of grade crossings (public or private) or in intermodal terminals. The latter becuase of all the impatient paid-by-the-load truck drivers that will run your butt over so they don’t have to wait 30 seconds for your light engine to cross the crossing. I can even see them in railyards where multiple crews are working: that way a quick sweep of my lantern and I can see where my switchman/foreman is before starting a shove move.
But on the mainline? Not that they can hurt, but I don’t see them as the magic pill that some say they are. Common sense has to prevail first and foremost.
I do not think they are a magic bullet either. But I am always looking for something that will give an edge to the worker.
Maybe they should not be worn in every place, I can agree to that.
The only problem with people is that they are ------- human. Common sense takes a vacation way to many times. Some of the most worthless space is between some folks ears.
Trainmaster has a job to do, cannot argue that. If the powers that be want him to sit all night watching us, so be it. Willing to bet I am not alone in thinking the TM is more useful in visiting customers to explain our needs, or getting more carloads out of them, preserving jobs for all of us.
Bring him a calendar, explain why we need the switches dug out so we can pull his loads/empties, let them know they can call you if things go FUBAR. Let them take care of the minutia. I can also see the DOT’s desire for the vests. Now I don’t wear one in the cab, UP rules provide that. But anywhere else, oh well, just follow along.
Believe it or not, we are paid to follow the rules, like them or not. (A variation on that is “We are paid well to work safe, no matter how long it takes”.) Gone are the days where you can do as you please, when you please. Yeah it may take longer, and you become a bit frustrated, but so what? The only thing that counts, is going home in the same condition as you left it, with a paycheck in your pocket.
Any death of a Railroad employee is one too many. Such crass statements don’t belong in a safety sensitive environment. Despite the fact there are some of my fellow employees I do not relish, they do not deserve that kind of comment, even as a joke. I am not violent at work, but I sure can (and have) brow beat a person who has that kind of attitude towards their fellow workers. Be it employee or manager or Superintendant.
So you want to interpt my statement wrong, and i certainly dont owe an exsplanation but 1st statment is true, deaths in railroad by switching moves is very low, meaning that the vest wont change anything, and it also means we must be very safe doing are jobs.
2nd is when im called stupid and make stupid moves to kill someone, its easier to prove a point by simply telling him how it would happen and why instead of defending any statment made. You know yourself a new hire is the most dangerous employee out here, the orange hats to see these people in the yard was a blessing. but for any person trying to sell his idea on this forum by name calling and accusing ( simply put) me of just doing as i want moving and killing men at will to further his ignorance so others can go find a body. by looking for a vest when the original statement was its not worth it in high crime areas. then be offended by the statement .
Now the wolf whatever guy How often do we get shot at. Just goes to show your igno
As I mentioned before, the fire service (and all highway workers - cops included) are mandated to wear vests when working on (federally funded) highways.
The first firefighter to be injured in a roadway accident after the law took effect was wearing his vest.
People also manage to hit those big trucks with all the flashing lights and reflective material on them, no matter what color they are.
Point? The vest does not equal safety. Safety is people. I wear the reflective gear - but as Wabash points out, if I put myself in harms way, the vest isn’t going to save my life.
Fellas- This discussion would be a little more educational without the name-calling. How ’ bout it?
Question- If wearing the reflective clothing was an employee option, would most guys wear the reflective clothing in the situations where they saw an advantage?
A side note: 4 or 5 years ago, our biggest competitor gave out 1,000 neon green baseball caps to darned near every carpenter in town. It was quite an advertizing coup, until it became obvious that the color of the hats attracted bees like crazy, and no one could wear them outdoors.
And I will repeat, one death is too many, much less 16 in 2009! To imply, “we must be very safe doing our jobs” is to ignore all those deaths last year. Make your own conclusions sir. I personally have a problem with indifference to human life. Said indifference is what causes complacency, and more death. If you find that offensive, or ignorant, so be it.
No I am not offended and you should be. i was talking injuries and you come and put words in my mouth with deaths, Fair enough i left that open so if you think im guilty then i am. But who said i ignored any deaths, you did fact is every year are injuries and death rate has gone down that means we must be doing are jobs safer or we must be pretty safe at doing are jobs. which means we didnt forget. but why didnt you mention death in the trucking industry or all the highway deaths, is it that you forgot?
Now why didnt i get offended with your out right attack about me because people die when its your time its your time, nothing You myself or anyone else can do about it. Also i am for capital punishment and in favor of the death penalty. work injuries and death is one thing i feel sorry for the guys who lose thier life in a accident but other than learn from thier mistakes not much more can be done. that is being realistic. and i have no problem with it.
I have no problem with the vest and being worn in the right areas, like in the yards is not a problem but i said its not needed in high crime areas to stand out and be targeted, and was called names attacked for a strong belief and with proof of 2 men sent to the hospitals 1 man is off permanetly from injuries recieved in the attack on him by 3 men that jumped him, at age 23 is disabled for life and the other i reported here already. i also know of several shot at, so to tell me to buy a pacifier and go to name calling was uncalled for.
There are times the vest comes in handy. The company I work for falls under MSHA rules. Mine Safety is supposed to be the safeguard of the employees. When MSHA comes and does an inspection it is literally turning to be a joke. The so called safety violations are becoming a joke. Just a couple examples. $75 fine for not having a cover on the lunch room trash can. $300 fine for not securing the lunch box in a wheel loader cab. This next one is my favorite. $10,000 fine for no life boat for the drainage pond that is not deep enough to float a boat after a rain and is more like a ditch to catch the silt that runs off the yard.
Safety is safety. Complacency is the leading cause of work place accidents. I see so many green vests I don’t see them anymore. You hear so many back up alarms, You pay no attention to them anymore and that is what gets you in trouble. Knowing your surroundings and coping with the situation is the only thing that will get you home after a shift. Not what you were wearing before walking behind that truck that was beeping. We lost a haul truck when the loader ran into it. No one was injured but the cause was the vest the operator was required to wear reflected off the windshield and made it impossible for the loader operator to see through it. We lost a quarter million dollar truck but at least we did not get fined for not wearing that vest.
When the vests/Hi-Vis clothing became mandatory, a couple of incidents that involved employee fatalities were cited. In both instances the vests wouldn’t have made any difference. The employees killed stepped out right in front of a train, not enough time time to even sound the horn.
In my area they have recently implemented Track Breach Protection for TE&Y employees. If an employee has to work between main tracks or main and adjacent tracks (there are some exceptions), the employee contacts the dispatcher (usually) and once established, the dispr contacts other approaching trains. All the information is copied down on forms provided. It’s not like requesting a Track Permit or Track and Time etc, you are telling the dispatcher that you’re establishing TBP. However, there have been reports of the dispr’s telling conductors trying to establish the protection, “wait for the Z train to go by and call me back.”
A train being notified of TBP in effect must attempt to contact the holder 3 times by radio before entering the limits. If unable to contact they may continue through the limits at maximum authorized train speed and continue attempts to contact. If you do contact the holder of TBP, you’re governed by his/her instructions.
TBP does not involve MOW employees. If a track inspector is out hi-railing on the adjacent track, he isn’t told some one is working and may be foul of the track. So you can still be struck by a hi-rail truck if you’re not careful.
That’s the thing about all these new safety initiatives that concern me. It’s teaching complacency or a false sense of security, IMO. Some one is going to go out and think, “I have my vest on, I have Track Breach Protection, I’m protected.” They then drop there guard be
That is a great point, and I am not so sure that it is understood by those who develop safety measures. Every safety measure or device leads a person to depend on it for protection and lower their natural wariness. So if the device fails, the person tends to be less protected than they would have been without the device.
The Hi-Viz in and of itself doesn’t bother me…the problem is how it’s applied at my company. The only acceptable Hi-Viz is a company provided vest (which is suppose to break away, and doesn’t) or RCO harness. There is plenty of other much better Hi-Viz apparel that we can’t take advantage of.
My question is, why the need for the vest? I’ve used a reflective radio belt since I hired, which is far more reflective then the vest. I also have a reflective company jacket, and ANSI 3 rain gear, again far more reflective then our vests . But I still have to wear the vest with any of them.
Of course instead of recognizing that there are places where it’s better to blend in then stand out, the company mandates the Hi-Viz be worn anytime you are on or about the tracks, this includes the cops. I mean, come on, they wear black BDUs for a reason!
Having been shot at, rocked and propositioned by a gentleman of an alternate lifestyle, I am fully aware of the value of not standing out in certain situations. The location I was shot at, had, and as far as I know still has, a standing order not to use lanterns at night. Should I ever return, I fully intend to follow the no lantern edict and leave my Hi-Viz in my grip.
Several others have also pointed out the problem with the over abundance of Hi-Viz, it becomes so commonplace, you start not seeing it. Or you see it so much it becomes a distraction, and you fixate on the Hi-Viz instead of what you are suppose to be doing. I remember hearing a study a while back regarding “safety green” emergency equipment, that found the lime green trucks actually caused more accidents then they prevented, because the color was so distracting.