Good Morning All
Is there a method to add weight to the pilot truck of steamers?
I don’t have too many problems with derailments but when I do the most unforgiving wheels are the pilots, especially 2 wheeled ones. It doesn’t matter if it’s my 2-8-8-2, 2-8-2 or 2-8-4 or brand. The pilots always seem to just float along with no pressure to hold them down.
Do they come off just anywhere or only at turnouts and crossings? Have you checked the guage of both the wheels and track (and turnouts, all the way through). My offending leading trucks were due to an out of guage turnout.
If all else fils, you could try to glue a small piece of lead on top of the truck if there is room.
Good luck,
Sounds like the track, or simply too sharp a curve/turnout, not the locos, to me. As a long time operator of steam models, I do just the oposite, I usually remove whatever spring the factory installed to “hold them down”, since such downward springs on pilot and trailing trucks actually reduce pulling power.
Smooth track and correct gauge of both whhels and track should be all that is needed.
There is however no question that steam locos are more demanding of good to excelent trackwork than diesels.
The late Paul Mallery said it best - “Excelent trackwork is a must”
Sheldon
Let me be presumptousm and answers some of these questions on Hamltnblue’s behalf because I continue to experience similar problems. Hamltnblue, if I have misspoken, feel free to slap my hand.
The derailment of the pilot trucks occur in turnouts, yes, but also on curves, sometimes, but not all the time. The track work appears good and the turnouts are in gauge. Crossingd are less of a problem.
The pilot trucks just seem too light and too springy, insufficient pressure or weight to hold them down.
In my case, I have added lead weight to the bottom of the pilot truck with double faced tape and that solves the problem. But, over time, the double faced tape gives way and the weight falls off.
Some have suggested wrapping solder around the axle, but I have never tried it. Does it work?
Rich
Fellas, I have a wide range of engines (not many, just no two alike) across maybe five manufacturers, and in the odd case where I experienced surprising derailments, it was always my track…every time. I had to soften the ballast by wetting it and waiting 15 minutes, and then literally prying up (usually the outside rail) on a curve just 1/16", sometimes even less, and forcing a thin shim between the road bed and the bottoms of several ties. Then re-tamp the ballast and glue it again with a light glue solution. Final step is to wipe the rail tops.
Yes, this is not much fun, and it is frustrating and laborious. But when I accepted that the solution was likely going to be a process of re-profiling my rail heights, I got engines running reliably. That was my goal, and that is what it took.
Look for rails that wobble a 1/16" over the course of an entire foot. You need a straightedge placed over the rails from place to place, and you back-light the straightedge so that you can see the dips and rises as you get your eyes down to see the rail tops where they meet the bottom surface of the straightedge.
-Crandell
Thanks for the feedback.
The assumptions noted earlier are mostly correct. The track is usually the problem and is for the most part trouble free. One section (lift out bridge) will sometimes be just a hair off and cause the pilots with 2 wheels to derail. I know for sure that a little weight would stop this. Just don’t know how to correctly add it. At the club my Y6b (which has no problems at home) has issues with a couple of modules. Once again I feel that some additional weight or pressure would do the trick.
You could try ‘expanding’ the resting length of the spring if it is a coil spring, or slightly bending a blade spring. You may get better tracking, but as (I think it was Sheldon noted), you run the risk of reducing traction at the driving wheels because any lifting force between any of the wheels will lighten the load elsewhere.
-Crandell
There are two basic methods of applying downward pressure to pilot wheels: add weight, or spring-load it. Which method you use depends on a number of factors: the shape of the pilot truck, whether it’s a 2- or 4-wheel truck, the amount of pressure you need, etc. For most old brass engines, the 2-wheel pilot truck is a simple wedge-shaped piece of brass, with wither a brass tube soldered on the wide end for the axle, it even with the end of the wedge bent around to slightly greater than the diameter of the axles, and with a coil spring pressing the wedge down onto the track. You can affect change with these types of trucks by reducing the size of the spring by cutting a coil or 2 off, ro increase the pressure by stretching the spring very slightly. With this principle you are also reducing or increasing the amount of traction the drivers will have.
Personally, I prefer the weight addition method when possible or necessary. I usually use some sheet lead (the type sold for roofing flashing) glued onto the pilot truck frame.
An interesting (and very old) method for 2-wheel pilot trucks that works fairly easily on brass locos uses 2 brass handrail posts (the short ones used on the boiler) and some .020" brass or phosphor bronze wire:
You drill a hole in the driver cover plate to fit a post, behind the pivot screw for the pilot truck, and a similar hole in the truck frame, in both cases on the frame centerline. Line up the handrail holes with each other with the pi
I’m going to make an educated guess and say that some/most/all of your problem locos are Bachmann non-Spectrum. Bachmann’s Spectrum line is of reasonable quality but their regular line is some of the worst junk on the market, and derailing pilots is one of the primary problems. I have owned only 3 of Bachmann’s regular line of of locos and every one of them had that problem. In other words, they simply would not stay on the track. I have a Bachmann 4-8-4 that I wouldn’t even try to unload on e-bay because I have a conscience. I would be stealing somebody’s money if I sold it to them. It is that bad. Just because Bachmann stole my money is not justification to do the same to somebody else.
Isn’t it fun, though? A 2-8-2 will derail the pilot truck on a curve while a 4-8-4 takes the same curve without a second thought. A four-wheel pilot truck will catch on a turnout while a 2-wheel pilot truck goes though smooth as butter. 'Tis a conundrum, as they say.
Most of my locos are brass, simply because of the railroad I model, and my trackwork is pretty dependeable, but there are still times when my pilot trucks decide that they’d rather go somewhere else than the rest of the locomotive. I try and keep downward springs on the trucks to an absolute minimum of force, because as Sheldon so aptly put it–too much ‘downward’ force on a spring is going to have an effect on the loco’s traction.
Generally, what I do if I find myself with a somewhat recalcitrant pilot truck is use a piece of lead sheet weight, glued to the upper side of the truck itself. It doesn’t take very much–on a 4-wheel pilot truck, two little pieces glued on the frame right over the wheels themselves, and on a 2-wheel pilot truck, a small piece on the frame over the wheel, and if necessary, another glued to the bottom of the ‘wing’ that comes out from the bottom of the loco frame. This usually does the trick. I make sure that my wheelsets are in accordance with the NMRA gauge, and if not, then they’re either adjusted, or replaced with NWSL wheelsets of the same diameter.
Some brass manufacturers, instead of using a ‘downward’ spring over a pilot truck will use an ‘offset’ spring that connects from the bottom of the loco frame itself to a connection under the truck. This gives enough force to the truck without ‘lifting’ the frame itself. Generally, when I see this kind of balancing, I can usually be assured that I’m not going to have a pilot truck that decides to take off independently of the locomotive.
But good track, proper weight and radius all are going to have a great deal to do with how y
I only have one engine that has pilot truck issues. It is a cheap Bachmann Hogwart’s Express that the Grandchildren love.
Is it the old Niagara or an old GS4 or a pre Spectrum J? What size curves are you expecting it to run on?
True, none of these list above were great - that has nothing to do with what Bachmann is making now.
My new Bachmann regular line 2-8-4’s (converted to 2-8-2’s) run just fine with no derailments. I do have 36" radius curves but even ran one at a friends house on 26" radius.
Or is this just more Bachmann bashing? The OP said in his post it was several wheel arrangments and brands - some of the wheel arrangments he listed are not even offered by Bachmann in any form. Did you read his post?
And, IIRC from previous posts, the OP has at least one MTH 2-8-4 and not the “inferior” Bachmann version like me. Surely the high priced MTH loco could not have such a defect?
Sheldon
Tom,
What type of glue do you use to hold the lead sheet to the pilot truck?
Rich
gmcrail,
What type of glue do you use to hold the lead sheet to the pilot truck?
Rich
I’ve added weight to 2-wheel pilot trucks by wrapping the axle with lead wire (available at fly-tying shops). It’s simple and typically requires minimal dis-assembly. It seems to put the weight right where you need it, too.
I also recommend looking for track and truck issues. The truck may be slightly out of gauge, have a bent flange, etc.
Thanks for the ideas. I think I’ll try the sheet lead for starters.
I haven’t had an issue lately with derailments on my layout but mostly at the club. The problems all seem to be that the pilot simply is too light which is why I wanted to try something.
For the record none of the 3 loco’s in question are Bachmann. They are 1. Paragon 2 Y6B, 2. MTH Light Mikado, 3. MTH Berkshire.
My biggest issues are with the BLI’s, not so much the Bachmann Spectrum’s, and no problems with three Proto Heritage steamers.
I have to agree - I have 5 BLI/PCM steam locos, only one, the N&W class A, ran flawlessly out of the box.
The others, two original PCM Reading T-1’s needed weight ajustments and drawbar mods to run well. The other two, USRA heavy Mikes, both needed extensive rebuilding and reworking. One had to be stripped to the frame and rebuilt as if building a kit, along with a few new parts from BLI, to get it to run well. They both run nice now with their new Spectrum long haul tenders.
Yet I have nearly 30 Bachmann and/or Spectrum steamers, none of which have been problems. I do have a number of small personal preference “upgrades” that make the Bachmann locos run better, but none of these mods were “needed” to keep them on the track or make them work.
Mostly the Bachmann mods are things like:
Adding weight to the tenders for backing long trains and for improved electrical pickup.
Shortening and modifying drawbars for closer coupling and better wiring harness clearance.
Removing noise suppression capacitors for better slow speed performance.
Adding weight to the 2-8-4’s for better pulling power.
And, as stat
Rich:
I just use good old 5-minute Epoxy. Works like a charm.
Tom [:D]
I just use good old 5-minute Epoxy. Works like a charm.
Tom 
Yes, this will work every time.
Peter Smith, Memphis