Were Shays (or Climaxes) ever used in or sold to more urban-y industrial yards and used as switchers? I’d like to know the same for Decapods please, if an 0-8-0 or Consolidation wasn’t available? I’m spreading out Bachmann Spectrum purchases and would like to use and buy a Shay and give it “double duty” in a small logging scene and in a wharf or mountain industrial yard. They’d be within a scale 2 miles of each other… I’d also like to know if anyone knows if a Bachmann Spectrum Decapod/Russian can negotiate #4 and #5 turnouts without a problem. So…I’m looking at: a 2-8-0 and a 3 truck Shay purchase right now or a 2-8-0 and Decapod purchase to use as yard swithers for now and for mainline runs as well. Thanks for your help.
Sure, I think one of the New York City area switching lines used a Shay encased in a boxy housing (the thinking being that a horse would think it was a boxcar and wouldn’t be afraid of it). Small geared engines were used in many industrial settings, mostly owned by the industry, NOT the railroad. There were even some really small narrow gauge engines that ran on prototype sectional track and wre used to haul building materials at road construction projects.
I would rather doubt that a 3 truck shay would be bought as a yard engine, but would be bought as the primary power for a shortline and used for everything, including yard switching, much the way a GP7 is used for everything on a branch line. So if those are the only engines that the logging line owns, guess what they are the switch engines.
The MP used Russian Decs to switch the ferry slips along the Mississippi. The Pennsy used I-1’s as hump engines. The C&O bought AS616’s and the RDG bought H-24-66’s as hump engines. The UP, SP and CNW used SD35, SD38 and SD40’s as switchers and hump engines. 4-4-0’s have been used as switchers.
Between 1939 and 1941 the IC built 14 2-10-0s from 2-8-2 boilers and 2-10-2 chassis. There were numbered 3610-3624 . The pictues of the one’s I’ve seen show them with switcher type pilots, the same type of clear vision tenders the IC used on their other switchers and I’ve never seen a photo of one that wasn’t working the yard.
Jeff
The Soo Line’s only 2-10-0 was used in ore yard switching almost exclusively, sometimes in Upper Michigan and sometimes in Minnesota.
Railroads generally used whatever they needed to use to get the job done. The Missabe sometimes used 2-10-4’s as “switchers” moving ore cars around.
The Rio Grande used a shay in Salt Lake City’s Roper Yard as a switcher. It came from a Utah mining railroad that the railroad acquired in the 'thirties, I believe.
Tom
The boxed-in Shays used on Manhattan Island belonged to the New York Central, used on the West Side line before it was grade-separated and electrified. City ordinance required them to be, “Preceeded by a man riding a horse, carrying a red flag…”
The West Side Lumber Company had a standard-gauge Heisler that was only used to switch interchange cars around the mill complex at Tuolumne. The logs came out of the woods behind 3 foot gauge Shays. Not exactly urban, but definitely industrial.
Locomotives up to 2-8-8-2 size were fitted with footboards - but the N&W used those Ys for hump power. Likewise, the only Mallets ever owned by the NYC and PRR were used to push cars up humps in various yards, not as road engines.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Thanks so much, guys. I thought I’d heard of Shays being used in this manner, as a kid but wasn’t sure I’d imagined it and have recently been informed by some friends that they hadn’t… Can anyone tell me if a Bachmann Spectrum Decapod and negotiate #4 Walther’s turn outs without issues? I have #5s and 4s in my yard. Many thanks!
That Heisler was engine #3. It was originally narrow-gauged, later standard-gauged for switching the Tuolumne saw mill, then returned to narrow gauge for the tourist railroad in Felton (near Santa Cruz) California.
About 1960 when I was 13, my family visited Tuolumne and climbed over the locomotive. The watchman came over and said our activity was OK but not to step on the building side of the locomotive. The mill was inactive due to a strike Unfortunately, the mill burned to the ground shortly thereafter due to suspected worker unhappiness.
On the upbeat, I subsequently saw the Heisler in action at Felton. I got to drive a two-truck Shay on that railroad. It was a joy, but I still wish it had been Westside Heisler #3.
Mark
The ‘Russian’ decapod is a very small engine(it is smaller than Bachmann’s Baldwin 2-8-0). I have run one through Atlas #4 turnouts(really #4.5). I suspect they will run througth those tight Shinohara #4’s with no problem.
Jim
Thanks Jim. I remembered the Decapod looking larger than the 2-8-0 Consolidation but maybe that sloped front fooled me. I’m leaning towards the Shay purchase lst as I’ve always wanted one but I’m weighing the benefits of the Decapod being used as a mainline loco also. The horizontal geared drive is a siren call so far…it would be awful slow for a mainline loco but then again I’ll have a nearly 3% grade. I could use it as an ersatz helper engine as well as a switcher… It’s nice to know that I can justify both loco’s use as switchers and will weigh the pros and cons. It’s just that these two (out of 3 choices) will likely be my last loco purchases until the economy improves and nobody has any inkling how long that’s gonna be. I have two articulateds for two mainline trains so the switching takes priority so far with the above. I researched the Roper yard and found some great pics but no Shays in them, so far. I’ll keep looking though. Cool yard.
Capt,
Most Shay or geared engines usually ran with a top speed of 12-15 mph, and they sounded like they were going ‘60’ with those small cylinders thrashing away. Their continuous TE was quite high, but most Shay locomotives were quite small(except for those monster WM ones). A 60 ton Shay was typical, and a typical 0-6-0 could weigh 90-100 tons. Low speed and stopping to grease those big exposed gears was normal for Shays. Back around 1970, I did volunteer fireman work on a 36-37 ton narrow gauge Shay at Allaire State Park in New Jersey. Greasing the external gears after starting the fire was SOP. I doubt if the engine and it’s normal 4 car train ever got over 10 mph.
Jim
One thing to keep in mind re the Shay is the cylinders / gears etc. are all on the right side, so you might want to look at how your switching area is laid out. Since switchers generally (not a hard and fast rule) operated facing the cars they were switching, if your layout is set up so the Shay would normally have it’s left side to the aisle, you won’t be able to see the “fun” side with all the whirring gears going around. When I decided I had to have a geared engine I went with a Spectrum Climax, which has moving parts on both sides.
Thanks again, Jim. Those slow speeds might help to make operations/switching last longer in the industrial area on my small layout which could be an advantage… I suppose those same minimal speeds though, would make the Shay untenable as a pusher or helper for larger locos, then? I grew up and lived in New Jersey in 1970. I remember the name Allaire State Park, but i’ll have to go google it to see where it was. I grew up in Passaic Co., North Jersey near Paterson/Pompton Lakes. Stix. Good point, which hadn’t occured to me in my shopping frenzy 
Thanks! So most switchers, even diesels switched cars “nose to” the freight cars? Did this practice generally make it easier to allow the road engine to pick up the made up trains and have the switchers get out of the way or were there other reasons? I used to know a lot of these prototypical practices as a kid but after a 20 year + absence from the hobby I’ve forgotten everything! Looks like my engine house is located on my track plan so that the right hand side of the Shay will be facing the aisle so I’m really glad that you reminded me how important that would be! I plan on running some dead turnout frogs (no power routing) with Caboose ground throws. Are either of these two locos (Decapod/3 Truck Shay) likely to stall or do both have ample pickup? (Walthers Turnouts). Finally, if anyone comes across Shays being used in division yards or more than mine/logging industrial areas in pics, I’d love to see them. Thanks guys.
For the small industrial complex with its private railroad planned for my next layout, I’ve acquired several locomotives: a Climax (Bachmann), a 45-ton GE locomotive (Bachmann), and a 45-ton Whitworth (rare brass import). These are all quintessential industrial locomotives. While there is need and space for only one, I’ll use the one best suiting my mood at the moment.
Mark
Everthing else being equal, the engineer would want to be on the same side as the switchman to ease communication. Yards were usually set up with the switchstands on one side of the yard ladder trucks. Large yards had more than one ladder track, frequently oriented differently. (Like, one ladder would have all the switch stands to the left, and the other to the right. Switchstands were located to minimize the need for switchmen to cross tracks.) In those situations, however, it wouldn’t be unusual for more than one locomotive switching the yard, each oriented in the most advantageous way.
Mark
Thanks Mark. I’ll try my best to remain prototypical (in a proto-lance manner 
I appreciate the detailed info. It’ll help my decision process regarding the Shay vs. Decapod purchase. I’m trying to fit more prototype reading in with the layout building but as a beginner, the layout “how to” reading is taking precedent right now. This forum is great for finding things out as you need them or as things occur to you, during the building process.
Geared steamers were relatively expensive so a railroad wouldn’t use a Shay where an 0-6-0 would do the job. If a railroad had steep grades in the industrial areas it could justify a Shay for switching. That said, the Illinois Railway Museum used their Shay as a switcher in the 1970’s because it was the only non-electric locomotive they had at the time. In the 1990’s, IRM used their Shay to pull caboose trains on their streetcar loop. That stopped when the streetcar operators discovered that a Shay did a very good job as a rail lubricator.
The Pennsylvania Railroad used their I1 decapods for heavy switching. “Heavy switching” is anything that was too much for an 0-6-0. The PRR preferred to use consolidations, but if the work was too much for a consolidation or the consolidations could be better used elsewhere, the 2-10-0 got the job.
I realise you’re modelling North American railroads, but until about 1975, the station pilot - switcher - at La Paz in Bolivia was a Shay, ENFE No. 508. It had originally been delivered to the Ferrocarril La Paz-Beni as their No. 2. The last I heard, it was dumped in the loco depot at Oruro.
Cheers,
Mark.
Thanks Mark. That’s interesting to hear, especially with a railroad yard scene taking place in the new James Bond movie, I just saw. (IF that was really La Paz, Bolivia in the film)… I think it may have been Panama though… It’s been fun sending prototype examples of Shay use in yards to my session mates.
A Shay was used in Kansas City (Missouri side); I believe by the Kansas City Southern. The need for that level of traction came from a grade from the primary trackage along the river up into industrial trackage on the north side of downtown. This included quite a bit of street running in an urban setting. I thought I knew where I had a photo, but it wasn’t in the volume that came to mind. They kept metal shrouds over the gears for safety in the street. The yards were there along the base of the bluff, so the Shay would almost certainly have been seen shuffling about the yards daily.
I had a hard time justifying a Russian Decapod on my HO coal and lumber hauler connecting with the Clinchfield in Southwest Virginia, but it is just such a neat locomotive that I had to have one. It is hard to beat watching 10 connected drivers, even though a 2-truck Climax would “fit” better. My justification is that it is on a trial via a short-term lease from the Charleston & Western Carolina Railway. The locomotive number (400) is that of the home road, but my HO folks did put their own lettering on the tender. After all, the weight was spread out over all those drivers so the decapods were generally easy on the track…
Bill