I’ve been reading the TMCC manual and can’t figure out what BPCs are for. I know they are used for creating and controlling blocks, but do I need them, should I use them, with the modern ZW? The manual doesn’t cover this.
I don’t think I need them since I am going to have rotary switches to switch between power sources…
BPC’s are the command control equivalent of the roateay switches. If you go to the Lionel web site and download the BPC manual it has examples and a full explanation. The device is meant for advanced users of traditional block control (aka conventional loco’s) that want to handle this via the remote (aka CAB-1 or Legacy controllers).
Chuck,
Thanks for the info. That is how I read the manual as well… now the question is - can I use these in conjunction with the rotary switches? Or would that be unnecessary… here’s what I am trying to accomplish:
I have two levels with multiple blocks. I have TMCC, Postwar, PS1, and PS2 engines. I will be controlling the TMCC engines from the CAB-1, the others I will be controlling in conventional mode. Is it possible to hook the BPCs up with the rotary switches or is that not necessary? The BPC manual didn’t discuss switching from TMCC to conventional mode.
Brent,
You may want to read a few of the posts about using TMCC with DCS or PS-1 or PS-2 locomotives. From what I can find on the DCS system you can not get all the PS-1 or 2 stuff to work with only TMCC & a Cab-1 or TPC. MTH claims that you need their DCS system to get all the features from their locomotives, “remember this is what MTH claims!!” Maybe others on here can tell you if that is so like Chief or Laz.
Lee F.
Lee,
Thanks for the headsup. I have a Z1000 and have been able to get all the PS1/PS2 features I would use to work, so I don’t really think I need to invest in DCS right now… maybe after I have the Z4000 and Legacy up and running I will change my mind, but for now I’m pleased with running them in conventional mode.
Brent,
I am using a Z1000 as well to control my T1 with PS-2 and I have the DCS system with it. Constant speed control(for uphill or downhill) is one of the things you will get with DCS, and able to throw switches remotely with the add-on AIU. The DCS system costs around $300.00 for the TIU & handheld remote, the AIU is about $100.00. You can run up to four tracks with one TIU if I am correct and hookup 10 switches and 10 accessories to one AIU, also you can hookup five AIU’s together. I just have one AIU and one DCS unit. The only drawback or negative feature with the PS-2 system is when I run the engine too slow over a switch or uncoupling track as this sends the engine into neutral mode and needs to be restarted.
One other observation that I have made with a PS-2 loco, don’t know about TMCC engines, when it is shut down(only the PS-2 system is turned off) it is still capable of transmitting power between the two center roller pickup wheels, had an accident and found this out! Jumped it across an insulated block with track power still on and my other locomotive lashup took off and rear ended the train I was working with, instant five car derailment and four other frieght cars on the floor!
Can you let me know how you like the Z4000.
Lee F.
For my current set up, I am doing everything I can to make my layout completely conventional and command hybrid.
Basically, I have four separate power blocks, and four separate real transformer throttles(on a Z and a ZW tranformer). Each of these is currently wired directly to the track, although I plan to in the next few weeks get it set up in the traditional block control style with rotary switches.
Each of my track switches and accesories has its own button or controller on the control panel.
I also have a command base which is always on and connected to the track. I also have an SC-1 connected to four of my switches, and will soon be purchasing an SC-2 to control the other two, as well as all of my accesories.
What this means is that I can put a conventional loco on the track and run it just as if command control had never been invented.
I can also put a command loco on the track, and control it without ever touching the control panel except to bring up the power to the track. As mentioned, I also eventually will be able to control everything from the CAB-1 without having to touch the control panel, save for flipping the rotary switches.
This also brings me to my somewhat longer term plan. I would also like to install two TPCs, along with a BPC. This set up would allow me to remotely control conventional locos through the TPCs, while still maintaining complete hands-on control panel control if so desired.
From what you’ve described, I think that this same sort of set-up would appeal to you. That way, you could also control your PS-1 and PS-2 engines through the TPCs, and keep the throttles for conventional control.
ben,
You nailed it. So I guess the answer to my question is… Yes - you have it right. Rotary Switches are the way to go.
Thanks!
Hello Brent:
Just out of curiosity, if you are running a TMCC loco and it travels into a block that is off, the train would stop, isn’t that correct? If so, why bother even running TMCC, since you will be forced to be glued to the control panel to make sure that all of the engines have power as they pass through blocks. If you get the BPCs, then you could use the hand held, and be mobile while controlling all of your trains.
Am I missing something? Sorry if I am asking a stupid question, but in my limited time in the hobby I have only operated in command mode (TMCC and DCS) and I would like to understand conventional control a littler better.
Regards,
John
The versatility of the BPC units makes using them rather interesting. I speak only from a TMCC perspective, so there may be other uses in situations where DCS is also used.
For a full command layout (no conventional engines) since there is no need to vary the voltage supplied to a section of track, a BPC is essentially just an on/off switch. On my last layout, I used a BPC to control the power supplied to four yard tracks. Once a train is set on the track, the power could be turned off using the BPC to save wear and tear on lights, smoke units etc. A BPC should only be wired to control the center rail so that it never interferes with the TMCC signal from the command base.
When TMCC is primarily used to control conventional engines running on a layout with blocks the BPC can be used to switch a given block between either two or four power sources depending upon how it is wired. What this does is allow the next block that a train will enter to be powered from the same source that is powering the current block the train is in. Comes in handy when running trains with differing power requirements. For example, one operator is running a long lighted passenger train with two powered engines which needs 18 volts to run. A second operator is running a short local freight with a can motored switch engine that only needs 8 volts to hustle down the right of way. The BPC is used to make sure the train gets its power from the correct source. The local freight train would take off like a bat out of you know where if it was to cross over onto a block that has its power coming from the passenger train source.
John,
The mainline blocks will be set to the same setting most of the time, the only time I would be glued to the control panel is when I am moving trains from one track to another. I may eventually upgrade all my non-TMCC/PS1/PS2 engines to TMCC, that way I can just change from TMCC to DCS, but that is going to take a while since I have a number of non-TMCC engines.
I only have 2 PS2 engines and 2 PS1 engines, so I’m not as concerned about upgrading to DCS. The rotary switches are more of a stop-gap solution till all the engines are either TMCC/Legacy or PS2/DCS.
Also, I do like to put down the remote sometimes and go conventional… so maybe it will just remain like this?
Hello Brent:
So, if I understand you correctly, any one block actually makes up its own loop? So, that once power is set to a block, the train will run continously? Meanwhile, your main line will be set to TMCC, allowing you to operate in command control. Do I have this right?
Regards,
John
Not quite:
In the above there are 3 blocks on the outter mainline and 3 blocks on the inner mainlines.
There will be one rotary switch per block, so 6 rotary switches. I will have 4 power sources, maybe 5 or 6 (haven’t decided). Each rotary switch has 12 + 1 positions (the one is the common that will be attached to each blocks power drops. Each rotary switch will be connected to the power sources with the power positions the same… for example:
ZW A-U = Post 1
ZW D-U = Post 2
Z1000 R-B = Post 3
KW A-U = Post 5
KW B-U = Post 6
Notice that Post 4 is not used, this is because I will be buying a Z4000 in the near future and want Post 4 for the Z4000’s second output.
To have a train run continuously on one track you set all of it’s block switches to the same setting.
Now say I have a train on level 2 and want to bring down to level 1. I already have 2 trains on level 1, so one will need to go up to level 2 after the train from level 2 comes down to level 1. So I park train A on outter loop blue block, and park train B on inner loop red block. Then I change cyan block, dark blue block, green block, yellow block, orange block and black blocks all to Post 3, bring train C down onto the cyan block, through dark blue, into the green block, and reverse it using the yellow block, back into dark blue and cross over to orange and then into the black block. Park train C on the black block.
Now train A needs to go up to level 2. Set orange, dark blue, and cyan blocks all to Post 1. Bring train A from blue block into orange, pass into dark blue and then into cyan and up to level 2. Turn cyan block to Post 7-12 (turn it off).
Train C is now on the outer loop black block heading clockwise. So we turn blue and orange block to Post 3 and fireup the engine.
Train B is now on the inner loop heading counte
Hello Brent:
Thank you for the detailed explanation. It is more of what I thought your setup would be when it was initially described. A couple more questions if you don’t mind:
Being a command control guy, power blocks are a little confusing to me. However, having said that I have seen many posts by Bob Nelson and others that use conventionally controlled blocks with interesting and creative results. Having said this, it would still appear to be more attractive to be able to control block activation and throttle control from a hand held remote, enabling the operator to be anywhere around the layout when he/she wants to make a change to one of the trains. Not to mention the wiring headaches that would be eliminated. I applaud your determination, soldering six transformer leads to each of the 12 rotary switches will be quite a task.
Regards,
John
The second option.
If running conventional you are correct, I would be restricted to the control panel. If I am running TMCC, then no I would not be restricted.
It will replace the Z1000
No, that would be less than ideal.
[quote user=“johnandjulie13”]
Being a command control guy, power blocks are a little confusing to me. However, having said that I have seen many posts by Bob Nelson and others that use conventionally controlled blocks with interesting and creative results. Having said this, it would still appear to be more attractive to be able to control block activation and throttle control from a hand held remote, enabling the operator to be anywhere around the layout when he/she wants to make a change to one of the trains. Not to mention the wiring headaches that would be eliminated. I applaud your determination, soldering six transformer leads to each of the 12 rotary switches will be quite a task.
Regards,
John
[/quot
Thanks again for the feedback. I will eagerly await progress reports (along with lots of pictures [;)]). You have created a layout that makes me envious. Keep it up!
Regards,
John
The BPC would be the equivalent of taking the rotary switch panel around with you and accessing it from the CAB-1. You will still need to use PowerMasters, TPC’s or a new ZW to control conventional loco’s via TMCC.
OK… so BPCs are starting to sound intriguing… IF I went with the BPCs would I still be able to control conventional locos from the ZW? What about the PS1 and PS2 locos? Or would I need the BPCs AND the rotary switches… or would it be better to just breakdown and get the Z4000, TIU and AIUs?
I really want to be able to use TMCC/Legacy, Conventional, and eventually DCS…
The BPC’s are meant to be used in conjunction with the TMCC/Leagcy command bases. If you want to run in strict conventional mode (aka “console”), you would need to wire up the eqipment in parallel with toggle’s to select which mode you intend to run in.
BPC’s have nothing to do with control of PS-1 or PS-2 loco’s in conventional mode. You will need to use a new ZW or TPC’s (Track Power Controllers) in order to send the short whistle/bell or voltage shifts to control their functions. PowerMasters won’t do this.
Remember that a Z-4000 can only handle two 180 blocks irrespective of command or conventional control. If you wish to run in strict conventional mode at some point, a Z-4000 is a good choice if you only need to control two blocks. If you intend to control more that two the Z-4000 gets kind of pricey. If you intend to run DCS, a Z-4000 is an expensive source of power as you can just use Lionel PowerHouse bricks to power the TIU channels. You can use up to three Z-4000’s with a remote commander set up if all you want is walk around throttle capability but retaining console control if you chose to. A modern ZW will allow remote throttle for up to four blocks but the B and C throttle’s default to command mode by default (aka full throttle) at startup unless you use the CAB-1 to throttle down at start up.
Strict conventional control is probably the cheapest method to use followed by strict command control. Things get expensive and complicated as you t
Hello Brent:
To operate conventional engines from a handheld, DCS is simpler than TMCC. Since we haven’t even discussed turnouts, accessories, etc. we do not need to talk about the AIU yet,(or the ASC & SC-2 for TMCC) but it is an available option. While each TIU can handle four different inputs, I do not believe you could operate the block system that you have devised.
Regards,
John